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Old 03-19-2016, 04:44 AM   #1
Akrazotile
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Default Plumbing vs. Forestry

Thought this would be an interesting comparison since the issue of education is prevalent in the public dialogue currently.

Deucewallaces was kind enough to share with us some info on forestry salaries. According to him, once you complete a masters degree, you can make 52k per year.

Incidentally, 50k is about the salary of the average plumber in America.

So let's say a couple kids finish high school. The first kid starts vocational training and works as a plumbers assistant a few hours a week and also works a regular job a few hours a week. Let's say he makes 30k his first two years out of high school.

The other kid begins a bachelors program. Pays 5k per year for four years.

Now after the first couple years the plumber is gettin closer to the average salary. He's working full time and making 40k per year in his 3rd and 4th year after high school. While the other kid is still payin 5k each year to finish his bachelors.

So four years out of high school, a plumber has earned $140k so far, while Deuce (err, the foresty student) is at -20k.

But now Deuce is starting his masters. So for the next two years he's... still paying 5k per year (minimum). So six years out of high school, Deuce is 30k in the hole. While the plumber has made 200k+ in that same time.

But NOW Deuce has his masters in forestry. And he can begin makin the BIG bucks.

But wait. He earns 52k with his masters degree. And that's now what the plumber is making, too. But the plumber is already a quarter of a million dollars ahead of Deuce after just 6 years.


So... I don't understand. WHat's the big deal about this forestry degree Deuce keeps bragging about?

Why does everyone need a degree to succeed? Deuce has spent his entire young adulthood paying random tenured professors to grade his busywork so that he can now, at 38 years old, show the world his masters certificate and start making $52k per year.


Like... wow. When you put it in context, it's pretty amazing how dumb the left wing rhetoric is about this stuff.

Last edited by Akrazotile : 03-19-2016 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 03-19-2016, 05:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

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Old 03-19-2016, 06:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

you can put plumbing/electrical occupations against any profession in terms of money.

but, the difference is that one has to do manual labor and deal with shit as a living. the other gets to go out in nature and study it and make it a better place. for a person like you who would be more fitted to fix sewage pipes, studying your brain for the betterment of the world isnt something you would value or understand, which is why you had to ask the question.
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Old 03-19-2016, 06:34 AM   #4
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjizzle
you can put plumbing/electrical occupations against any profession in terms of money.

but, the difference is that one has to do manual labor and deal with shit as a living. the other gets to go out in nature and study it and make it a better place. for a person like you who would be more fitted to fix sewage pipes, studying your brain for the betterment of the world isnt something you would value or understand, which is why you had to ask the question.



Teleport yourself into the cringe thread.
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Old 03-19-2016, 08:24 AM   #5
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

I made 70K last year with just a High School Diploma and some College Courses.

Don't let Douchewallaces fool ya. He works at the campus bookstore. That's why he's up to date on all the lingo. He's 35, looks like he's 12, and thinks he's a tough guy.


You ain't fooling us, Norman.
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Old 03-19-2016, 09:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

Well to be fair you do need some people that specialize in Forestry, and atleast forestry is some sort of STEM degre. I suppose he provides some value to the world, and We can't have a world full of plumbers.

But I never got the snobbery or the entitlement some people have for having a degree. I have a graduate degree as well and do fairly well for myself but I don't think I am above people that have to go out and figuratively break their back for their job while mine involves sitting in an office chair. But I do look down upon people that major in a liberal art degree and then complain about their job prospects. Sorry if you want to major in a liberal arts degree you should realize that your job prospects are limited (generally speaking)and there is only a certain amount of liberal arts job the market will hire. The latter might make me a hypocrite but some of these majors are more akin to hobbies.
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Old 03-19-2016, 11:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

I can't tell if this thread is a dig at degrees, forestry degrees, or just DW.
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Old 03-19-2016, 11:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjizzle
you can put plumbing/electrical occupations against any profession in terms of money.

but, the difference is that one has to do manual labor and deal with shit as a living. the other gets to go out in nature and study it and make it a better place. for a person like you who would be more fitted to fix sewage pipes, studying your brain for the betterment of the world isnt something you would value or understand, which is why you had to ask the question.
You think that Deuce doesn't dig through bear and wolf shit for a living?
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:15 PM   #9
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

Going back to Starface's analysis I used a similar method in deciding not to go to law school.

When I was considering law school (I was in my early 20's) I was making roughly 50-55k, and if I went to law school full time and quit my job I would have lost three years of my salary and salary increases (in the very least around $150k) and would spend another $120k or so to obtain the degree. Therefore, my total opportunity cost of going to law school was around $270k. This doesn't include the costs of bar exam material, additional transportation, salary increases and living costs while going to law school, interest, and so forth. So let's round up and say it would of been around $300k.

If I went to a top 14 law school I would have a pretty good chance of getting a big law soul sucking job where I would work crazy hours but make around $120-$150k. It probably would of taken me around 3-4 years after working as a lawyer to break even of the opportunity cost of $300k I mentioned above. But this assumes I would of made it in a top 14 law school and landed a big law job, and in reality I probably would of went to a top 100 law school and would have had to graduated in the top 10% of my class to get a big law job. And I would of probably had to settle for some average $50-$70k job and hope to make it big afterwards.

Now there are many lawyers that didn't analyze the costs and quit their jobs and went back to school because a Lawyer is a prestigious job and afterall these costs are just an investment, Right? Well to some degree it is but it could be a bad investment, and now you have a large backlash against law schools because many of their students are in debt with no jobs.

Point is people need to look at going to school with a realistic approach. As long as DW is happy with his decision and isn't bitching about the pay then good for him. But if he thinks obtaining 4 degrees and forewent years of potential earnings to make $50k in his 30s (this is assuming Starface's info is correct) was a sound business idea then I think Starface has a point to some degree. But if DW is doing something he has a strong interest in and enjoys his job then more power to him. The ones that should be criticized are the ones that go into huge student debt and/or bitch about the salary of their jobs and how unfair it is they make alot less compared to "x"

Last edited by ALBballer : 03-19-2016 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyrieTheFuture
I can't tell if this thread is a dig at degrees, forestry degrees, or just DW.

I'm rent free in a test subject's head.

On another note, who needs forests, trees, timber, wildlife, carbon, ecosystem services and everything else that goes along with it.
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBballer
Going back to Starface's analysis I used a similar method in deciding not to go to law school.

When I was considering law school (I was in my early 20's) I was making roughly 50-55k, and if I went to law school full time and quit my job I would have lost three years of my salary and salary increases (in the very least around $150k) and would spend another $120k or so to obtain the degree. Therefore, my total opportunity cost of going to law school was around $270k. This doesn't include the costs of bar exam material, additional transportation, salary increases and living costs while going to law school, interest, and so forth. So let's round up and say it would of been around $300k.

If I went to a top 14 law school I would have a pretty good chance of getting a big law soul sucking job where I would work crazy hours but make around $120-$150k. It probably would of taken me around 3-4 years after working as a lawyer to break even of the opportunity cost of $300k I mentioned above. But this assumes I would of made it in a top 14 law school and landed a big law job, and in reality I probably would of went to a top 100 law school and would have had to graduated in the top 10% of my class to get a big law job. And I would of probably had to settle for some average $50-$70k job and hope to make it big afterwards.

Now there are many lawyers that didn't analyze the costs and quit their jobs and went back to school because a Lawyer is a prestigious job and afterall these costs are just an investment, Right? Well to some degree it is but it could be a bad investment, and now you have a large backlash against law schools because many of their students are in debt with no jobs.

Point is people need to look at going to school with a realistic approach. As long as DW is happy with his decision and isn't bitching about the pay then good for him. But if he thinks obtaining 4 degrees and forewent years of potential earnings to make $50k in his 30s (this is assuming Starface's info is correct) was a sound business idea then I think Starface has a point to some degree. But if DW is doing something he has a strong interest in and enjoys his job then more power to him. The ones that should be criticized are the ones that go into huge student debt and/or bitch about the salary of their jobs and how unfair it is they make alot less compared to "x"

His economics are way off. I'm not going to argue with a troll about the value of going to school vs being a test subject or plumber.
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
His economics are way off. I'm not going to argue with a troll about the value of going to school vs being a test subject or plumber.


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Old 03-19-2016, 12:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

I know guys with a forestry degree that make $80k a year just a few years after they left university.
Also, forestry is obviously an extremely important subject to study, because without forests mankind is facked
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBballer
Well to be fair you do need some people that specialize in Forestry, and atleast forestry is some sort of STEM degre. I suppose he provides some value to the world, and We can't have a world full of plumbers.

But I never got the snobbery or the entitlement some people have for having a degree. I have a graduate degree as well and do fairly well for myself but I don't think I am above people that have to go out and figuratively break their back for their job while mine involves sitting in an office chair. But I do look down upon people that major in a liberal art degree and then complain about their job prospects. Sorry if you want to major in a liberal arts degree you should realize that your job prospects are limited (generally speaking)and there is only a certain amount of liberal arts job the market will hire. The latter might make me a hypocrite but some of these majors are more akin to hobbies.

This was primarily in relation to this specific quote of his:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
It seems logical that as a society we would benefit from subsidizing college education. We need more people with those skills and no debt. Undergraduate is the new high school and a MS is the new BS/BA.


If we create free edumacation the way Bernie wants we're gonna be paying for all these kids who are simply going to school THINKING it's the way to a more prosperous future. Not because they have a specific field picked out and know it requires a certain degree, but all the kids (probably a majority these days) who are just going because they think theyre supposed to and dont have any clue what they're gonna be doing in 10 years. Most of them have absolutely no business being in school. It will serve them no economic benefit, because in reality, going into something like a forestry program puts you in a HOLE compared to something like plumbing or construction work. How many foresters do we need?? I'm all for conservation, but when it comes right down to it I'd rather have someone available to fix a bursted pipe than deuce out there measuring tree rings.

So it's not like it's all that economically beneficial to subsidize college for everybody. In fact it's downright stupid. For many people, it's simply a waste of income earning years. They're not any better off when they're done than if they'd have just learned some skills fresh out of high school and gotten to work.
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:37 PM   #15
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Default Re: Plumbing vs. Forestry

Wild guess here but I don't think people get into forestry for financial gain.
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