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Old 05-16-2011, 10:25 PM   #16
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

I don't see how Dirk can't be considered as great as Barkley or Malone if he gets a ring

Top 15 for Dirk, top 25 for Kidd.
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Old 05-16-2011, 10:30 PM   #17
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

Better than Kobe.
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Old 05-16-2011, 10:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe24Clutch
Nobody would care.



Dirk top 20 for sure. Not sure about Kidd though.
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Old 05-16-2011, 10:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

Dirk + a title and a few more years at this level... heck I'd think about top 15 for him. Let's say he plays 15-16 years at 20 ppg (Not hard to imagine given his playstyle), plus maybe 2-3 years at a decent level, say 14-16 ppg. His longevity would be as great as any. PLUS he would have an MVP, a title and most likely a Finals MVP. Not many players would stack up to his resume.

And that's not even counting that he would be the greatest Euro of all time, and maybe the 2nd best international player after Hakeem.
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Old 05-16-2011, 11:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

IIRC Dirk should be close to cracking the top 10 in all time scoring by the end of next season.

Probably top 6-7 all time when it's all said and done.
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:02 AM   #21
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkNowitzki41
IIRC Dirk should be close to cracking the top 10 in all time scoring by the end of next season.

Probably top 6-7 all time when it's all said and done.

#25 Clyde Drexler - 22,195
#24 Ray Allen - 22,286
#23 Dirk Nowitzki - 22,792
#22 Elgin Baylor - 23,149
#21 Adrian Dantley - 23,177
#20 Kevin Garnett - 23,323
#19 Robert Parish - 23,334
#18 Charles Barkley - 23,757
#17 Allen Iverson - 24,368
#16 Patrick Ewing - 24,815
#15 Jerry West - 25,192
#14 Reggie Miller - 25,279
#13 Alex English - 25,613
#12 John Havlicek - 26,395
#11 Dominique Wilkins - 26,668
#10 Oscar Robertson - 26,710
#09 Hakeem Olajuwon - 26,946
#08 Elvin Hayes - 27,313
#07 Moses Malone - 27,409
#06 Kobe Bryant - 27,868
#05 Shaquille O'Neal - 28,596
#04 Wilt Chamberlain - 31,419
#03 Michael Jordan - 32,292
#02 Karl Malone - 36,928
#01 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 38,387


This year Dirk scored 1,681 points. It was his lowest output since 03/04 when he scored 1,680. This can mostly be attributed to Dirk missing 9 games and coming back early on a gimpy knee to stop the Mavs from collapsing mid season. Odds are had he stayed healthy he would have scored anywhere from 1,800-2,000 which was his output from 04/05 - 09/10.

So lets say he plays for four more years. I'll give a low estimate of 1,500 points per year which accounts for more injury, age and potential role change in the offense. 6,000 more points and Dirk could potentially be just outside of the top 5 at #6 or #7 depending on how long Shaq hangs on and assuming Kobe remains healthy enough to continue to move up. If he maintains his normal health and continues scoring at 1.8-2k per year he has a legitimate chance at being in the top 5 for scoring.

(getting into the top 5 also assumes that we lose no games to a lockout next year)

Last edited by kentatm : 05-17-2011 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:11 AM   #22
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

Dirk moves in to the top 20 or 25 for sure. No one player has probably deserved it more over the last 6-7 years. He still has 4 or 5 good years left and will certainly amass 25,000 points in the next couple of years.
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:39 AM   #23
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

JAson Kidd Top 10.. Dirk top 30
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:45 AM   #24
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

I think Dirk would have a strong case for the top 15 range. Definitely top 20 though.

Considering Dirk is already in the top 25 range, he'd have to move up considerably.

Unless of course people stop weighing titles so heavily just for Dirk. Which would make perfect sense.

If you actually look at Dirk's entire career and don't just focus on 1 or 2 poor moments, he's been pretty much just as good as all of the players in the 15 to 25 range even without a title.

But Dirk will need a title to move up higher than 25 because for some reason the standards for Dirk are much higher than most of those guys.
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:49 AM   #25
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I think Dirk would have a strong case for the top 15 range. Definitely top 20 though.

Considering Dirk is already in the top 25 range, he'd have to move up considerably.

Unless of course people stop weighing titles so heavily just for Dirk. Which would make perfect sense.

If you actually look at Dirk's entire career and don't just focus on 1 or 2 poor moments, he's been pretty much just as good as all of the players in the 15 to 25 range even without a title.

But Dirk will need a title to move up higher than 25 because for some reason the standards for Dirk are much higher than most of those guys.

It is because of the Warriors series and a couple other bad losses.

If we were just not counting winning, then put David Robinson out there in this era and I guarantee he is a top 8 GOAT. (i know it is unrelated)
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:52 AM   #26
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
It is because of the Warriors series and a couple other bad losses.

If we were just not counting winning, then put David Robinson out there in this era and I guarantee he is a top 8 GOAT. (i know it is unrelated)

I never said to not count winning.

Malone and Stockton never won. Baylor never won. Barkley never won.

I could go on and on. You make my point for me. Dirk is held to a higher standard. He played with less help than all of those guys as well.....a lot less in fact.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

If Dirk wins a ring, he will be up there in the top 15 IMO. He should be ranked ahead of Garnett and Barkley for leading his team to a ring as a #1 option and he has the stats to back it up and his stats also increases in the playoffs. He is a winner and the 11 straight 50 win seasons is a testament to how good this guy has been for such a long time. I wouldn't rank him above Malone. People forget that the only thing stopping Malone from being known as the greatest PF of all time is a ring. Malone is on par with Duncan but Duncan has rings so he is the Greatest PF of all time.

If Kidd wins a ring then this silly argument of Nash/Kidd can finally stop. I'm sorry but I don't get how morons can rank Nash ahead of Kidd when he hasn't even gone to an NBA Finals. Prime Kidd was a top 5 player in the league. Nash has never been a top 5 player in the league at any time in his career. I agree that his 1st MVP was deserving but the 2nd one should have gone to Dirk/Kobe. There is no way Nash should have won it on a 54 win team with mediocre stats. Anyways, Kidd will be ranked in the top 25 players of all time and I personally have him 5th in my pg all time list.

1. Magic
2. Isaiah Thomas
3. Gary Payton
4. John Stockton
5. Kidd
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Old 05-17-2011, 11:03 AM   #28
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

Doesnt do much for Kidd since he's basically a role player now, but will help leaps and bounds for Dirk.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colby Brian
how would a ring at 38, as the 4th best player on the team change anything

Well if they win a ring when they look back at kids legacy they will point out the defense he played on Kobe and that'll scor him some points but those back to back finals loss would knock down some points
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:16 PM   #30
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Default Re: If Dallas wins the title,

Quote:
Originally Posted by e-LIMON-ators
If Dirk wins a ring, he will be up there in the top 15 IMO. He should be ranked ahead of Garnett and Barkley for leading his team to a ring as a #1 option and he has the stats to back it up and his stats also increases in the playoffs. He is a winner and the 11 straight 50 win seasons is a testament to how good this guy has been for such a long time. I wouldn't rank him above Malone. People forget that the only thing stopping Malone from being known as the greatest PF of all time is a ring. Malone is on par with Duncan but Duncan has rings so he is the Greatest PF of all time.

If Kidd wins a ring then this silly argument of Nash/Kidd can finally stop. I'm sorry but I don't get how morons can rank Nash ahead of Kidd when he hasn't even gone to an NBA Finals. Prime Kidd was a top 5 player in the league. Nash has never been a top 5 player in the league at any time in his career. I agree that his 1st MVP was deserving but the 2nd one should have gone to Dirk/Kobe. There is no way Nash should have won it on a 54 win team with mediocre stats. Anyways, Kidd will be ranked in the top 25 players of all time and I personally have him 5th in my pg all time list.

1. Magic
2. Isaiah Thomas
3. Gary Payton
4. John Stockton
5. Kidd


Well in an argument for Nash they got robbed of a ring when horry tackled him and amare and bell got suspended IMO
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