Duncan is so boring and almost never screams, there's no way he could be as good a defender as KG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
KG is better at the defender at the PF position. Duncan is better at the C position, which should have been his natural position.
I strongly disagree with this. KG is worse at defending both C's and PFs. Specifically, Duncan defends the low post much better. KG is better at defending SFs and the non-agile SGs. Or shorter high post PFs. Neither can defend PGs or quick players unless they're coming over for help D' in the paint for a block.
KG is the more versatile defender, admittedly, but as I been saying, who cares if your 7 footer can guard SFs and slower SGs? You want him gaurding the PFs and C's. Duncan is better at that. . .hence, Duncan is the better defender.
but as I been saying, who cares if your 7 footer can guard SFs and slower SGs? You want him gaurding the PFs and C's. Duncan is better at that. . .hence, Duncan is the better defender.
Who cares if your PF can guard centers, when another PF can guard SFs? KG is better at that... Hence KG is the better defender.
See, I can make up bullshit rules to declare who's a better defender too.
Pretty close. I'd say Duncan's a better defender one on one of centers, KG guards every other position more effectively. Duncan's a better rim protector, but KG stops guys from getting to the rim, is better in other facets of help defense and the best pick and roll defender ever probably. Probably KG by a little bit.
at this clown acting like a big man's biggest defensive impact is made by 1 on 1 defense. In fact, in general, 1 on 1 defense isn't the most impactful defense on a night to night basis.
Who cares if your PF can guard centers, when another PF can guard SFs? KG is better at that... Hence KG is the better defender.
See, I can make up bullshit rules to declare who's a better defender too.
I would say nice try, but really, that wasn't. Poor try. You know full well a big man who can guard larger players in the low post is more important than a big man who can't do that very well, but oh btw, he has the novelty ability of being able to guard slower players on the perimeter from time to time.
It isn't a rule, it's a fact. Duncan is better. KG is worse. If you want to be a hard headed little ***** about it, I can just bring up the fact that Duncan's Spurs have been a top defense team every year of his career while KG has played on several teams who were weak overall defensively.
Or I can do you one better. Tim Duncan's career defensive rating completely shits upon KG's career defensive rating. Tim Duncan's career average? Allows 95 points per 100 possessions. KG's? 99. Tim Duncan being on the floor hold teams down by 4 more points than KG does. Duncan averages more boards per game, more blocks, and more combined steals/blocks.
Good luck making excuses for stats. I mean, since you refuse to listen to logic, you can just look at the stat sheet. Which is vastly in favor of Tim Duncan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Pick N roll and help defense.. probably one of the biggest things a big man needs to be able to do nowadays.
That isn't 1 on 1 defense, which is what was being talked about. It's one thing to fall back and clog the paint than it is to stand in the open floor and guard someone who's trying to take you off the dribble.
Or are you trying to claim prime Duncan was a poor pick and roll defender? Review the stats I just posted. Duncan is better.
I prefer Duncan since he can guard the PF/C positions as opposed to PF/SF (more perimeter) types. A defender at the C position is harder to find and more expensive than a defender at the SF position. After watching Bonner/Blair get abused by Gasol/Randolph, give me size any day.
I would say nice try, but really, that wasn't. Poor try. You know full well a big man who can guard larger players in the low post is more important than a big man who can't do that very well, but oh btw, he has the novelty ability of being able to guard slower players on the perimeter from time to time.
It isn't a rule, it's a fact. Duncan is better. KG is worse. If you want to be a hard headed little ***** about it, I can just bring up the fact that Duncan's Spurs have been a top defense team every year of his career while KG has played on several teams who were weak overall defensively.
Or I can do you one better. Tim Duncan's career defensive rating completely shits upon KG's career defensive rating. Tim Duncan's career average? Allows 95 points per 100 possessions. KG's? 99. Tim Duncan being on the floor hold teams down by 4 more points than KG does. Duncan averages more boards per game, more blocks, and more combined steals/blocks.
Good luck making excuses for stats. I mean, since you refuse to listen to logic, you can just look at the stat sheet. Which is vastly in favor of Tim Duncan.
I would say nice try, but really, it wasn't. You're being a b*tch about this. You resorted to name calling and I didn't even give my opinion on the subject because defense is hard to quantify, and stats can always be skewed.
You know the Spurs had much better teams than the Timberwolves, which makes your team defense segment worthless.
.7 more boards and .2 more combined steals/blocks does not mean Duncan is a vastly superior defender.
Defensive rating can obviously be affected by who your teammates are as well. If you don't have proper help and backup then you are put on an island a lot more.
I would say nice try, but really, it wasn't. You're being a b*tch about this. You resorted to name calling and I didn't even give my opinion on the subject because defense is hard to quantify, and stats can always be skewed.
You know the Spurs had much better teams than the Timberwolves, which makes your team defense segment worthless.
.7 more boards and .2 more combined steals/blocks does not mean Duncan is a vastly superior defender.
Defensive rating can obviously be affected by who your teammates are as well. If you don't have proper help and backup then you are put on an island a lot more.
Don't be a confrontational knob gobbler.
I resorted to name calling? I swear, you're like a whiny baby who cries to the teacher that someone else "started it" after you got stole on for pushing someone.
You reply to my post with a mocking post, and you got shat upon. You had no argument, and still don't have one now.
Sure, Duncan's stats aren't way above KG's. . . But 0.7 boards is 6.5% better than KG's. 0.2 is 7.1% better than KG's. I would say 7% is a significant stat differential. It doesn't blow him away, but it's higher. If KG had higher stats, you'd be saying lol~ more stats! more stats!
But since he has inferior stats, now you're trying to pretend it doesn't matter. Sorry, but it does. When you want to disregard the non-statistical argument with weak mock posts, you can't also pretend that the stats don't matter.
Duncan has the edge in the statistical argument. Duncan has the edge in the non statistical argument.
All you are left with now is excuses. Excuses for low post defense being more important for big man then perimeter defense, excuses for Duncan's superior defensive stats, and excuses for KG "not having the same teams". Gftfo, you've failed on all 3 fronts. Now you're crying about me calling you names for making ignorant mock posts, when you name call yourself.
You have no argument, and are being a shameless loser.
As others mentioned, Duncan is better at defending centers and shotblocking, Garnett at everything else. He can defend all 5 positions, better at P&R, orchestrating all team defense, steals, you name it. KG effectively extends "rim protection" effect to 3PT line. Duncan never was as fast and agile to cover so much ground and still able recover to his man.
"Looking analyzing these metric, the first thing you’ll see is that Garnett leads all 3 of them. That’s nice, but there are two more “Holy Crap!” things to consider:
1) On all 3 metrics, the gap between Garnett and the #2 guy in the league is bigger than the gap between the #2 and the #10 by a VERY large margin.
2) Garnett switched teams before ’07-08, and it didn’t change this in the slightest. And in case you’re thinking that all 3 studies include time in Boston, understand that Garnett’s +/- peak was when he was in Minnesota, and that even Ilardi’s study doesn’t cover all of that."
"With all of this in mind, and what we know about the bigger picture, it seems quite clear that a strong argument can be made for Garnett as the best defender in the game when he’s on the floor. This in of itself is astounding. To be in this position in his 16th year in the league is completely unprecedented."
"Looking analyzing these metric, the first thing you’ll see is that Garnett leads all 3 of them. That’s nice, but there are two more “Holy Crap!” things to consider:
1) On all 3 metrics, the gap between Garnett and the #2 guy in the league is bigger than the gap between the #2 and the #10 by a VERY large margin.
2) Garnett switched teams before ’07-08, and it didn’t change this in the slightest. And in case you’re thinking that all 3 studies include time in Boston, understand that Garnett’s +/- peak was when he was in Minnesota, and that even Ilardi’s study doesn’t cover all of that."
Again, you're using data that excludes years in which Duncan won 2 rings and 2 MVPs - the best years of his career (99-03).
Re: Better defender: Duncan or KG?
Review the stats I just posted. Duncan is better.
