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Old 12-17-2006, 01:23 PM   #1
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Default Sometimes I'm ashamed to be a Kobe fan

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewt...=asc&sta rt=0



:rollingeyes:
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:27 PM   #2
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Only sometimes? Well, at least you're learning.

People like that, who let their love for a player override common sense and logic are the worst sports fan there are. Because they care more about what they WANT rather than what IS.

Fortunately, Extreme Bryant Groupies like that, while loud and obnoxious are a small percentage of the basketball world and any reasonable person can see the scum that they are.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:29 PM   #3
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Worst homers in sports?
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
Only sometimes?

I was just about to say the same thing, except with a "j/k" at the end. Funny though.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:30 PM   #5
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Some of those guys are just being sarcastic but yeah it's quite sad.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:33 PM   #6
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This post surprises me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker Logic (From Lakersground?)
Kobe has more skills than Jordan. He needs to win a couple more championships, then there won't be a question (Who is better)
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
This post surprises me:

Pure groupie talk is what it is, so nothing surprises me... and we have all seen that kind of talk for all NBA stars, etc.... they all have their pure groupies, which is just plain scary to most of us.



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Old 12-17-2006, 01:36 PM   #8
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One guy writes something sensible:

Quote:
You guys are joking right? Kobe is the best player in the NBA, and he played a great game tonight, but no need to disrespect MJ with this nonsense.

And they all shut him up.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
This post surprises me:

Why should it? A groupie is a groupie, even if they try to mask it behind faux intellect.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:41 PM   #10
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I don't think it's a stretch to say Kobe is more skilled than MJ was. That doesn't make him a better player but he clearly has a wider array of moves than His Airness...
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkylikemonkey
One guy writes something sensible:



And they all shut him up.
There seems to be one objective fan who doesn't suck his balls in that thread and everyone attacks him. He tries to defend Jordan to having a superior career and gets attacked like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groupie#24
Idiot, it's clear you never watched realized the East has been the undermanned conference for the last 20 years. They haven't had more than 6 good teams at once since Magic played.

The Lakers winning 45 games last year equates to winning 60 in the east since 1985.

Right, 1985...
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:43 PM   #12
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@ Bryant groupies. Pathetic. I'm not even sure if they're being sarcastic or not. For their sakes, I hope they are.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konex
I don't think it's a stretch to say Kobe is more skilled than MJ was. That doesn't make him a better player but he clearly has a wider array of moves than His Airness...
Uh no still off by a mile sorry.

I can't believe these guys actually believe the bullsh*t they are spewing out:
Quote:
think a few things need to be cleared up.

First of all. The Jordan being a " superior" athlete than Kobe dogma is a myth. Its true that Jordan was a world class athlete (basketball wise), but any superiority athletically is hardly perceptible and in all actuality its too close to measure. These two players are exttremely similar with their athletic attributes in terms of speed, quickness, vertical leap, strength, etc etc. Perception wise, the MJ legend usually clouds peoples thinking and memory.

Its always interesting when MJ backers with Kobe comparisons always point to athleticism as the main difference as to why MJ was the more efficient player. But fail to put those numbers in the proper context. When you isolate Jordan's numbers (compared to today) it would seem that he would be vastly more athletic and physically gifted than any mid sized player playing today. When thats clearly not the case.

Ive actually seen people argue that Jordan was as fast and quick as prime Allen Iverson. Once again, peoples memories getting the better of them. Theres no way anyone can justify a claim like that looking at any amount of game film of both players. Just like I dont think anyone can justify a claim that Jordan is clearly faster or quicker than Bryant off the dribble, if you look at footage of both players closely. There is barely any difference. If there is any, it cant be seen by the naked eye alone. Its like saying who is faster out of Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson. Who knows.

Someone mentioned earlier that Kobe has gone up against purportedly better athletes and performed well against them in Carter and TMac. Now seeing these players on the floor at the same time, can anyone honestly say that these guys were clearly faster or quicker than Kobe? Carter is a better leaper but Kobe has been eating his lunch for years. Does anyone even want to know what Carters career numbers are against Kobe? TMac has superior physical dimensions than Kobe but seeing them on the floor at the same time, can anyone honestly say that you have noticed any kind of difference athletically? Other than Kobe literally running circles around TMac.

We can even talk about guys like Lebron and Wade. Lebron, easily the most physcally gifted mid sized player ever, why doesnt he out quick or out maneuver Kobe easily? Watch them when they are on the floor at the same time. Whats the difference? Wade, supposed to have the quickest first step since Jordan, when you see him on the floor with Kobe does he look noticeably superior?

Do any of the guys mentioned ability to get off shots over the arms of defenders even remotely compare to Kobe? We're talking about vertical now. Kobe gets to his spot and elevates quicker and better than any player in the game today. Does anybody not named Vince Carter have dunks on their resume that even compares to Kobes MSG reverse windmill? What about Kobes ridiculous facial over Dwight Howard? Not Im not saying that Kobe is the best leaper in the NBA or anything like that (Jordan never was either), but he is most definitely in the same class as an all around athlete as anybody in the NBA. Its amazing how even Laker fans sell Kobe short when they have the benefit of being able to watch him every day.

Now back to Jordan's statistical dominance. First and foremost, what needs to be understood is the biggest difference in the performance of ALL perimeter oriented players compared to the 80s and early 90s is PACE of the game. I'll make it simple. Higher pace, leads to more posessions which invariably leads to more transition opportunies for great finshers and early offense. One cannot overlook this main difference. Its just plain harder to get easy scoring opportunities today than it was 20 YEARS ago. It doesnt matter how many great big men were in the leauge when smalls are getting chances to finish plays before the bigs even cross half court.

Defense. Talk about all the great shot blockers you want. But the team defense of the last 8 to 10 years doesnt even compare to how the game was played in the 80s and early 90s. One can look at ANY footage of any game from that era and notice the differences in team defense. The sophistication of team defense in the modern game LEAUGE WIDE has changed considerably. Especially when trying to defend those special MJ type players. Mid sized players that can break you down like a point guard and finish in traffic. Now the emphasis on team defense and the considerably lower pace alone should tell you everything you need to know why Kobe (or any other perimeter player) is shooting 50+ percent from the field the last 10 to 15 years.

Of course there are other smaller factors like better and longer athletes at the 2 and 3 spot. More defensive specialist, etc etc. Jordans late 80s stats look really nice compared to anybody playing today. But so did Bernard King's (since people like to point to FG% so much) I mean does anybody here really believe that a 6'5, 215 pount unathletic small forward (Adrian Dantley) would be puting up 30ppg on 55+ percent shooting in the game today when nobody playing in the last 15 years (not named Shaq) comes close? Please. Somebody once told me that Dantley did his damage mostly in the post. Well hotdamn, Kobe is a 6'6 220 pound guard with a SWEET post game. Im sure hed LOVE to be beastin whoever the bums were Dantley was going up against every night.

As for MJs DPOY award. Come on now. Michael Cooper has one too. Coop was great (in his day), and please dont let somebidy come on here telling me I needed to watch Coop. I grew up on Coop and he'd get murdered trying to guard these beasts we have in the leauge today. And Jordan didnt win his DPOY playing man defense anyway. Before Artest, Coop was the last shut down type guy to win it. Jordan won it doing his 200 steals and 100 blocks thing. Same thing with GP. He won his the one year he decided he wanted to concentrate on playing the passing lanes. Im not saying that MJs awards are overrated, just put them in context.

Back to the numbers though. The only reason we are seeing a slight rise in FG% amongst perimeter players the last few years is because of the no touch on the perimeter rule. Case in point, look at Lebron and Wade's percentages. Lebron was shooting 40% his rookie year when you could still put a forearm or get in a guys chest on the perimeter. The very next year (when they made the changes) his percentage shoots up to 47% and the following year up to 48%. Same thing with Wade, even tho he was solid at 46% his rookie year. But 50% of his shots were inside shots. A similar thing happened with AI and Paul Pierce, two other guys that rely heavily on penetration and forcing contact. Bring back the old rules, you'd see guys like Wade and Lebron shooting right around 45-47 percent like Kobe and Carter did when they were youngins. Nowhere near Jordan numbers. Remember you got to keep this in context to the game TODAY. Not that BS they called defense in the 80s and early 90s. Yeah you could handcheck and knock a guy down back then but that didnt stop a guy like Mark Aguirre (a 6'6 jumpshooting forward) from averaging 30 on 53% shooting the year before Jordan came into the leauge. Aguire used to work Jordan by the way LMAO. But nahh, Jordan would have no problem with Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Carter, TMac all guys with similar athleticism size and skills because he was so great and so much smarter and more athletic than everybody.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konex
I don't think it's a stretch to say Kobe is more skilled than MJ was. That doesn't make him a better player but he clearly has a wider array of moves than His Airness...

Go to LakerGround where you can have a groupie orgy why dontcha.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:45 PM   #15
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double post
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