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Old 08-19-2010, 01:52 PM   #16
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Vampirism as a metaphor for gay rights is fresher than another Scorsese take on wiseguys. Boardwalk Empire will not challenge the viewer in a similar manner.
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Old 08-19-2010, 02:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
Vampirism as a metaphor for gay rights is fresher than another Scorsese take on wiseguys. Boardwalk Empire will not challenge the viewer in a similar manner.

Team Edward>Team Jacob.
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Old 08-19-2010, 02:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Team Edward>Team Jacob.
Who are Ed and Jake and what do they have to do with my criticisms and lack of enthusiasm for this project?
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Old 08-19-2010, 02:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
Who are Ed and Jake and what do they have to do with my criticisms and lack of enthusiasm for this project?

Can you at least hold off your criticism until you've seen at least an episode? You say that this project won't contain anything fresh or new because the gangster genre has been done to death.

Can you honestly say that The Sopranos wasn't a game-changer for television (assuming you've watched the show)? TV had never seen anything like it, but the general premise was one that had been done ad nauseam. Now you have one of the brain trust of that project, which was universally hailed as 'groundbreaking', at the helm with an auteur whose body of work needs no introduction... yet you've already written it off before the first episode aired?

Same thing could have been said about the Wire. I bet before it aired you were complaining about how a procedural cop show, with gangs and drugs would bring nothing new to the table. New Jack City already did it!

And then you go on and try to tell me that gay/sexually ambiguous vampires fighting werewolves is something fresh or 'challenging' to viewers?

Last edited by DonDadda59 : 08-19-2010 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 08-19-2010, 02:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Sopranos was lauded as groundbreaking, but in reality did nothing to stretch or innovate the gangster genre. All it did was take a stale product from the big screen and plop it on the small screen. Hill St. Blues was a game changer. Star Trek was a game changer. Sopranos my friend was not a game changer.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
Sopranos was lauded as groundbreaking, but in reality did nothing to stretch or innovate the gangster genre. All it did was take a stale product from the big screen and plop it on the small screen. Hill St. Blues was a game changer. Star Trek was a game changer. Sopranos my friend was not a game changer.

Lol so wrong.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:15 PM   #22
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

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Originally Posted by macmac
Lol so wrong.
Give me examples of it's contributions and innovations.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:17 PM   #23
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
Sopranos was lauded as groundbreaking, but in reality did nothing to stretch or innovate the gangster genre. All it did was take a stale product from the big screen and plop it on the small screen. Hill St. Blues was a game changer. Star Trek was a game changer. Sopranos my friend was not a game changer.

Seriously?

Ok, let's do some outside consulting...

Quote:
THE SOPRANOS 1999-2007

To get a sense of how The Sopranos changed television, get a pen and make a list of the 20 best TV dramas before 1999. This Mafia saga showed just how complex and involving TV storytelling could be, inspiring an explosion of ambitious dramas on cable and off. In Tony Soprano's world, it wasn't the Mob that kept pulling you back into old, destructive patterns; it was your family--your controlling mother, your maddening wife, your feckless kids. Meanwhile, the big-F Family drama of the declining Mafia business offered popcorn entertainment alongside the deeper insights. Some fans may have hated the series' ending, but the fact that the show's last moments obsessed us demonstrates that America never stopped believin' in the power of this story.

TIME: 17 Shows that changed TV



Quote:
To celebrate 50 years in the business, in May of 2002, TV Guide published its list of 'The Top 50 greatest shows of all time'. HBO's The Sopranos ranked fifth on this list, just behind All in the Family (Entertainment Zone). The Sopranos also held the top spots for cable production, dramatic series, and most recently premiered show. With its riveting storylines, superb cast, and insightful social commentary, The Sopranos is unlike anything before it. TV Guide's high praise typifies the reactions of audiences and critics alike to series creator, David Chase's brilliantly crafted gangster drama. While the show's profanity riddled dialogue, graphic violence and sometimes-negative portrayal of Italian-Americans has earned The Sopranos its share of detractors, The Sopranos is routinely lauded as one of television's greatest and most influential works. In 1999, The New York Times' film critic Stephen Holden suggested that The Sopranos "just may be the greatest work of American popular culture of the last quarter century" (Holden 23).

As I write this essay, the start of the second half of The Sopranos' sixth and final season looms less than six weeks away. While fans delight in endless rounds of online speculation on the fate of Tony Soprano and the members of his two 'families', my intent with this paper is to step back from the specifics of the show's plot and consider the impact of The Sopranos on the nature of television. My discussion will be divided into three sections; the first and easily the largest section will tackle The Sopranos' influence on the content and business of television. Next, I will consider some of the show's central values and ideologies, and in conclusion, I will contrast major criticisms of the show with a discussion on The Sopranos' overall positive contribution to television.

Carter describes The Sopranos as "a groundbreaker… whose influence is likely to be felt throughout the industry in the coming years" (Carter). Inspiring everything from obvious knock-offs to fundamental changes in the way the television business works, The Sopranos has had a profound and pervasive influence on many aspects of the medium.

How The Sopranos affected Television (Way too long to post entire article)

The Sopranos changed things not just stylistically but the business side too. Shows like 'Mad Men' and 'Breaking Bad' and now 'Boardwalk Empire' wouldn't have made it past being nothing more than a bunch of scribbled dialogue and ideas on some starving writer's notepad. People write thesis essays on the impact the Sopranos has had on television. You can ask any exec at HBO or AMC and they'll go into an hour-long monologue on its impact on their industry.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
Give me examples of it's contributions and innovations.

I'm not gonna debate you Jerry. I'm not gonna sit here and debate.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:24 PM   #25
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Did you even read that outside consultation? It does not support your thesis well. Those articles are poorly written fluff pieces, and yes I read them that quickly.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:26 PM   #26
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmac
I'm not gonna debate you Jerry. I'm not gonna sit here and debate.
So far I have not been debated. I have been offered a couple of Red Herring and Bandwagon fallacies though.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
Did you even read that outside consultation? It does not support your thesis well. Those articles are poorly written fluff pieces, and yes I read them that quickly.

So I gotta do this piece by piece, huh? Fine

Quote:
While commenting on what distinguished The Sopranos from other dramatic fare of the day, NBC Entertainment president, Kevin Reilly remarked, "(The Sopranos) showed us that audiences could connect to a guy so deeply flawed as to be a murderer" (Poniewozik 58). The success of The Sopranos on television demonstrates what the film Little Caesar demonstrated more than 70 years ago, the appeal of the antihero. Poniewozik and McDowell observe, that although "television has occasionally featured wrongfully accused men (The Fugitive) or misunderstood rogues (The Dukes of Hazzard)," before Tony Soprano, TV was mainly "a good guys' zone" (58). While I would point out that Dallas' J. R. Ewing is a notable exception to Poniewozik and McDowell's good guys' zone, Tony Soprano has certainly led television's recent charge of antiheroes. Thanks to Tony, television producers everywhere have learned, or been reminded, that combining the cathartic effect of an unrestrained bad guy with the humanizing effect of even the hint of a soft-side, is a great way to leave audiences begging for more. Some of today's best small-screen antiheros include House's Dr. Gregory House, Nip/Tuck's Dr. Christian Troy, and Deadwood's Al Swearengen. Probably the most extreme television antihero is the title character in Showtime's series Dexter. Premiering in October 2006, Dexter details the exploits of Dexter Morgan, a forensics analyst by day and a vigilante serial killer by night.

The character Tony Soprano broke the mold of the typical good guy leading character that was the norm on television. By making him an (arguably) sympathetic anti-hero, or outright villain- he killed, cheated, robbed, basically a sociopathic monster- he gave rise to other flawed sometimes sympathetic morally ambiguous leading men. The author gives the example of Dr. House (Fox), Dr. Troy (Nip/Tuck, FX), Al Swearengen (Deadwood, HBO), Dexter (Showtime), and you can add to the list Walter White (Breaking Bad, AMC), Don Draper (Mad Men, AMC), the 2 main characters on Sons of Anarchy (FX), and now even Boardwalk.

And although those characters attempt to gain the depth of personality that we've seen with Tony, they don't come close. Name me another show that delved as deep into the psych of the leading character as much as The Sopranos did... We saw his revealing therapy sessions, his dreams, even him in purgatory (or w/e that was). You can passingly characterize the show as rehashed mob drama, but it would be more apt to classify it as a psychological character profile. Name me one example of a show before, or even after that approached a character like the Sopranos creators did with Tony.

Most critics and industry scribes credit the show with the resurgence of serial dramas. Plus the production value and scope of the show was more cinematic than anything on TV and other shows have attempted to recreate that (HBO's Rome and AMC's Mad Men being the best example before Boardwalk).

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Old 08-19-2010, 03:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

"Mainly" a good guys zone. The man you quoted disqualified your argument by adding a qualifier.
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:08 PM   #29
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
"Mainly" a good guys zone. The man you quoted disqualified your argument by adding a qualifier.

So my argument is invalidated by minor semantics... a 'qualifier'?

How about you address my points? Name me a character in the mold of Tony Soprano in television history before 1999. Show me an example of a serial drama that had the production value and cinematic content of the Sopranos before it aired. Then you can top it off by explaining to me why execs at TV networks and scribes are misinformed when they are all in universal agreement that the show affected their industry not only in terms of content, stylistically, but also the business side.
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: Boardwalk Empire (HBO)

Serialized Drama w/ Cinematic Elements: Hill St. Blues
Contemptible Protagonist: NYPD Blue
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