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Old 10-31-2006, 12:15 PM   #181
Knoe Itawl
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Originally Posted by joewait
You really don't follow. Ok, well we know back then there were fewer teams and no free agency and physical play was allowed. Are you somehow trying to tell me the Pistons of 03-04, if allowed to play with the brute physicality of the 80s teams could, wouldn't be able to do what the bad boys did to jordan? just look at the guys size, height, athletcism. I guarantee you they could have done that. Do you think Kevin garnett or any of the other big guys now with absurdly long reaches couldn't have done what they did in the 80s? Power forwards back then were like 6'8''. Jesus Christ. I don't see how Ewing would guard any power forward now, they'd all run circles around him. All the guys now have the skill set to succeed in the 80s if the rules changed. Difference is you cannot say that about the guys then, if they were to play now. And thats a fact

I'm done with you. You've failed to refute the points I've made are now just saying anything.

I will leave you with one thing, and that is that if you equate athleticism BY ITSELF with basketball greatness, you're a fool. Also, if you don't think there were athletic players in the 80s and 90s and magically in the past 8 years or so all these super athletes have arrived, you're also a fool.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:16 PM   #182
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Yeah, I really don't see it as Wade talking greasy...
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:17 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Da KO King
I'm sorry but how exactly is Wade talking trash?

Dirk says it was Dallas' poor defense and not Wade's ability that won the series for the Heat. What exactly is Wade supposed to say?!?

"Oh, didn't realize they were having so many defensive breakdowns. That cheapens what I did so here's the trophy back?"

To me its simply Wade stepping on their sour grapes.

This makes too much sense for your average simpleton with a hardon for Wade to understand.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:19 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by joewait
You really don't follow. Ok, well we know back then there were fewer teams and no free agency and physical play was allowed. Are you somehow trying to tell me the Pistons of 03-04, if allowed to play with the brute physicality of the 80s teams could, wouldn't be able to do what the bad boys did to jordan? just look at the guys size, height, athletcism. I guarantee you they could have done that. Do you think Kevin garnett or any of the other big guys now with absurdly long reaches couldn't have done what they did in the 80s? Power forwards back then were like 6'8''. Jesus Christ. I don't see how Ewing would guard any power forward now, they'd all run circles around him. All the guys now have the skill set to succeed in the 80s if the rules changed. Difference is you cannot say that about the guys then, if they were to play now. And thats a fact

Sorry but Ewing would be the best big in the game right now sans Duncan if he was in the League. He wouldnt be guarding pf because he is a center. And there is not one center in the league that can guard EWing,

Even your hero Dirk wouldnt be anything special in the learly 90's. He wouldnt even be a top 10 player.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:23 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by joewait
and you're conveninetly ignoring the fact the guys guarding him on the pistons then were considerably shorter and less athletic than the ones now. Dumars was 6'3'. thats the same height as Billups. Good job


look fool, if you are implying just because Dumars was shorter, that meant his D aren't on par with today's, you're a fool. Stop being ignorant. Anyone with eyes saw the clips of the 80s Pistons on Jordan, they fouled him, hard everytime he jumped, there were actually video evidence of Laimbeer putting Jordan in a headlock, slapping him in the head, etc as Jordan is going up. People wrap Jordan up the minute he leaves the ground, shoves, pushes, etc. There is no way any unbiased fan can say that it's harder to score on today's defense than on the 80s Pistons or 90s Knicks.

You're also a fool for thinking Kobe has mastered EVERYTHIHNG Jordan had AND Kobe has better range. If you put it like that, you're basically saying Kobe is straight out BETTER THAN JORDAN. Considering Kobe mastered every part of Jordan's game plus Kobe has better range. That's just a dumb ass comment, again, no unbiased fan can say Kobe has "mastered" all of Jordan's skills and strengths.

Finally, the fact that Jordan at 40 could still put up damn good numbers, the numbers Jordan put up at age 39 and 40 were low by his standards, but they would be considered "career best numbers" for all but about 10 players in the league right now. FORTY YEARS OLD. For him to do that at 40, you'd have to be f*cking ignorant, stupid AND retarded to think a 25 year old Jordan couldn't dominate today's league when he could put up 23, 5, 5 at age FORTY.
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:21 PM   #186
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Jordan in 02 got hurt around the all star break and because he didnt want to quit on the team played through much of it and only put up 16ppg and played just 28 minutes after the break. But before it....

25/6/5.3 and he was getting better. Working into shape. he month just before he got hurt he averaged a rounded off 27/7/5.

Kobe for the year put up a rounded up 25/6/6 and Jordan before he went down put up...25/6/5. jordan slightly up in blocks. Both with 1.48 steals. And Kobe played more minutes. Jordan was at 25/6/5 in under 35 minutes a game. Kobe has not played minutes that low since 1998. Kobe shot better from the field that year. But Jordan was not the Jordan of old. He was old Jordan. He was out there hesitating to dunk because he didnt want to miss.


This "era" **** has gotten totally out of control when people think Michael Jordan would fail to do anything these days. Wade just led a team to a title while being worse than Jordan at literally every single phase of the game. And thats something often said but rarely true. But Jordan in his prime was a better midrange, outside, and in the lane shooter, a better defender in the post and outside, a better passer, rebounder, and really...everything. Well I guess MJ didnt have Wades crossover but a crossover and ball handling arent the same thing. Jordan was better than Wade at getting where he wanted to be. And thats enough ball handling for me.

If Jordan 12-15 years removed from his physical peak in a stage of his life he had to be all skills and could barely even dunk could put up 25/6/5 in a league that had basically every current great player aside from Lebron and Wade how is an equally skilled but far more athletic Jordan going to fail to dominate?

Jordan had comp to equal anyones. Nobody in this league now that Kevin Willis is gone has even played a team the equal of the Showtime Lakers or Birds Celtics. Well no. is cliff still around in NJ? If so...no star has played them. None of these guards have had to beat Dumars and/or Rodman to go into the lane and get knock the **** out by Laimbeer and have them get away with it. Nobody today is going into the lane and running into centers like Hakeem/Drob/Mutombo in his prime/Zo/Ewing and so on.

And Jordan played when despite getting favored by the refs he couldnt get the calls Wade, AI, Bron, and Kobe do. The rules have changed in their favors. NBA allows a zone but teams dont really use it well and teams in the 80s used it too they just got away with it(unless they were playing Pat Riley who loved to point it out to refs when his own team wasnt using one).

You cant even handcheck a guy anymore. Much less all the **** Rodman, Moncrief, Jones, Gerald Wilkins, Starks, Dumars, nance, DJ, and such did to MJ. And the athletic difference between the best modern outside defenders and MJs isnt big. The best man to man defender now is probably Bruce Bowen who is hardly an athletic freak. Hes just determined, with good fundamentals, and allowed to play alllllllmost like 90s defenders could. So there is prince. There was Bobby Jones, Gerald Wilklins, Spider Smith(with his 7'6'' wingspan) and Larry Nance who guarded everyone from 2-5. Nance athletically may have no current better of his build. Closest would be Josh Smith. Nance wasl ike 6'10'' both fast and quick(difference) with hops like few ive ever seen.

There are tough bigmen like Ben Wallace now. No current center is either as athletic or skilled on D as Hakeem and Drob were. Or Ewing for that matter if you use pre injury Ewing. Which bigmen now are better disrupting an offense than Zo was? Or Mutombo?

How many pointguards now are better defenders than Gary Payton was? Or Alvin Robertson? Or Derek Harper? How many swingmen are better defenders than Pippen, Jordan, Rodman(who was a swingman type early and the best 3/4 defender later), Cooper Moncrief, and so on? How many 4s are better defenders than Oakley, Williams, and Mccray? I can think of 2. And Jordan played both.

Is this all D team:

Ben
Bowen
AK
Artest
Kidd
Kobe(they had 6 last year with a tie)

really better than this one from 10 years ago?

Payton
Jordan
Pippen
Rodman
Drob

?

And its not like Jordan played all old guys who dont play now. Or bad comp period. He played Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, Tmac, AI, Kidd, Pierce, Webber, KG and all them. In fact he played 9 of the 11 people currently on the all D team. And 11 of the 15 all NBA players. Not to mention Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Zo, Ewing, Isiah, Drexler, Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Kareem, Mchale, Nique, Grant Hill, Penny, Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Kemp, LJ, Mullin, KJ, Reggie Miller and more.

Jordan isnt one of those "era" guys. Even if someone thought he was the fact that he played against every great player to enter the NBA in the last 22 years aside from Lebron and Wade should kill that idea. And if anyone still wasnt convinced seeing a 38-39 yearold Jordan on bad knees robbed of his athletic ability and playing just 35 minutes put up 25/6/5 in 2002 should have left no doubt.

Michael Jordan in any setting is Michael Jordan. If he played and dominated any and everyone in his path in a prime including some of the greatest defenders and scorers in basketball history I doubt hed crumble in the face of the mighty shutdown D of Tayshaun Prince and Ron Artest or the amazing offensive talents of Wade and Lebron.

Michael Jordan in his prime dominated the 80s and 90s. MJ after his prime was among the best in the 2000s when healthy. You could drop MJ in his prime into the 2255 NBA and watch him put up 32/6/6 vs 7'3'' shooting guards with Dirk range and KG athletic ability.

Hes Michael Jordan. End of story.

Last edited by Kblaze8855 : 10-31-2006 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:38 PM   #187
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Which bigmen now are better disrupting an offense than Zo was? Or Mutombo?

Hoffa. He'll get you offensive 3 seconds, illegal screens, and offensive fouls all the while going 0 for 4.
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:41 PM   #188
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Wade's turning into a cocky sonuva*****.
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:53 PM   #189
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Great great post blaze. Any non point by point rebuttal is an admission that it's on the money.
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:02 PM   #190
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I wouldnt expect a point by point thing anyway. Even I wouldnt do anything point by point to something that long. Maybe in 03. not now.

Besides the type of fan to think MJ is inferior to current players doesnt care about reason in the first place. I was talking more to other people than to him.

And im not even sure its craziest thing ive seen him say. Hes got a stockpile of crazy comments to rival anyone ive ever known online or not.
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:08 PM   #191
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Haha, Kblaze just wrecked his ****. Thanks for backing up my main man MJ...
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:35 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joewait
Ok, let me explain my point as clearly as possible, since a bunch of people here aren't too intelligent. Never once did I say Dirk or Kobe is a greater player than Bird or Jordan, considering the latter dominated their eras. My point is that when Jordan came in the league, everything he did was new. Barely anyone else could do what he does. Well Kobe has mastered everything Jordan did, AND he has better range.

Your argument falls apart at the bolded premise. It's demonstrably false imo; at the very least, it's not demonstrably true, and so you should know better than to make such a claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joewait
Dumars was 6'3'. thats the same height as Billups. Good job

Vince Carter circa 2002, Slam magazine: "Joe Dumars is the toughest defender I've ever faced."

Quote:
Originally Posted by kblaze
Jordan in 02 got hurt around the all star break and because he didnt want to quit on the team played through much of it and only put up 16ppg and played just 28 minutes after the break. But before it....

25/6/5.3 and he was getting better. Working into shape. he month just before he got hurt he averaged a rounded off 27/7/5.

Jordan actually averaged 26.2/6.3/5.2 before the all-star break. At nearly age 39. Believe me, I did the math. Awesome post, btw.

Last edited by Loki : 10-31-2006 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:02 PM   #193
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Default Re: Wade talking trash about Dirk!

damn

2013 wade is lot different from 2006 Wade.

2013 wade. slow, weak, disinterested, just going through the motions,

& most importantly. does not talk trash to opponents!
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Old 05-31-2013, 04:30 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
Dallas is too soft to play physical. And thanks for admitting that Dirk is soft. HE gets rattled by physical play.

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