Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-10-2009, 07:38 PM   #16
Roundball_Rock
NBA lottery pick
 
Roundball_Rock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,742
Roundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizaAttack24
Factor in the Eras and that's why. Bird may have lost to Magic most of the time, but similar to Wilt Chamberlain, Wilt Losing to Russell makes his rankings go higher if anything, and the same thing goes for Bird losing to Magic.

The difference is Wilt consistently choked; Bird and Magic may have lost but they weren't choking every year.

The era point is interesting. If eras are such a big deal, though, why are the players who are most commonly listed as #1 and #2 players whose best years came during the 70's and 90's? How often do you see Bird or Magic listed as the GOAT?

Marketing is a big factor. The NBA resurrected itself behind marketing Bird and Magic. Shaq never had such a marketing campaign behind him. He wasn't even marketed as Jordan's successor. They were always looking for perimeter players like Penny, Hill, and later Kobe and T Mac as the new big ticket.
Roundball_Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 07:39 PM   #17
Carbine
Facts Are Misleading
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A Court Near You
Posts: 7,787
Carbine has decent reputationCarbine has decent reputation
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Here is the thing.

You can't say Bird has more accomplishments than Duncan or Shaq.

You can't say Bird has better longevity than Duncan or Shaq.

You can say Bird was better in his prime than Duncan, but not Shaq.


So how exactly is Bird clearly above those two again on the greatness scale?

I'm not even trying to argue one over the other, but to me... it's nearly impossible to come up with a valid argument that stands up to critisism in favor of Bird being clearly greater.
Carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 07:39 PM   #18
G-train
3-time NBA All-Star
 
G-train's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,859
G-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Watch some ****ing Larry Bird. He was a perfect basketball player.
G-train is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 07:41 PM   #19
G-train
3-time NBA All-Star
 
G-train's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,859
G-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Here is the thing.

You can't say Bird has more accomplishments than Duncan or Shaq.

You can't say Bird has better longevity than Duncan or Shaq.

You can say Bird was better in his prime than Duncan, but not Shaq.


So how exactly is Bird clearly above those two again on the greatness scale?

I'm not even trying to argue one over the other, but to me... it's nearly impossible to come up with a valid argument that stands up to critisism in favor of Bird being clearly greater.

He was better in his prime. And he had numerous individual and team accomplishments against the best players and teams ever.

This thread is a disgrace.
G-train is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 07:44 PM   #20
che guevara
National High School Star
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,258
che guevara is popular on this boardche guevara is popular on this boardche guevara is popular on this boardche guevara is popular on this boardche guevara is popular on this board
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekindled
bird and shaq right now both have career ppg of 24. shaq's gonna drop off after this year.

shaq career rpg = 11 , bird career rpg= 10. I dont see how 1 more rebound makes you a far better rebounder considering that shaq is like 4 inches taller than bird)
This is just dishonest, and you know it. Bird played 12 seasons, while Shaq is currently in his 18th. You're penalizing Shaq for playing a long time.
che guevara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 07:45 PM   #21
ShaqAttack3234
7-time NBA All-Star
 
ShaqAttack3234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,992
ShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekindled
bird and shaq right now both have career ppg of 24. shaq's gonna drop off after this year.

shaq career rpg = 11 , bird career rpg= 10. I dont see how 1 more rebound makes you a far better rebounder considering that shaq is like 4 inches taller than bird)

Shaq's played more years than Bird hence more decline years so that explains career ppg.

Both have a very similar peak ppg season with Bird slightly edging Shaq 29.9 to 29.7, but Shaq had 3 seasons over 29 ppg compared to Bird's 1, 5 seasons over 28 ppg compared to Bird's 3, 10 consecutive over 26 ppg compared to Bird's 3 total. Shaq also won 2 scoring titles compared to Bird's 0 and Shaq was top 2 in scoring 6 times, top 3 eight times and top 4 nine times. Bird, on the otherhand was top 2 just once, top 3 just twice and top 4 just four times.

As far as rebounding, Shaq had three seasons over 13 rpg, five over 12 rpg and ten seasons with atleast 11 rpg(Bird's career high). And that was with Shaq playing at a considerably slow pace meaning less rebounds available.
ShaqAttack3234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 07:50 PM   #22
Roundball_Rock
NBA lottery pick
 
Roundball_Rock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,742
Roundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-train
He was better in his prime. And he had numerous individual and team accomplishments against the best players and teams ever.

This thread is a disgrace.

This is a good thread. Shaq has a strong case over Bird although I don't see a case for Duncan over Bird, unless you only look at winning (4 rings vs. 3 and Duncan did it with scrubs in 03'). The OP should have included Magic in this too since Magic and Bird are always ranked together.
Roundball_Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 07:56 PM   #23
elementally morale
College superstar
 
elementally morale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,748
elementally morale has a terrific reputationelementally morale has a terrific reputationelementally morale has a terrific reputationelementally morale has a terrific reputationelementally morale has a terrific reputation
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
As far as rebounding, Shaq had three seasons over 13 rpg, five over 12 rpg and ten seasons with atleast 11 rpg(Bird's career high). And that was with Shaq playing at a considerably slow pace meaning less rebounds available.


And Bird had Parish and McHale for some of those rebounds.
elementally morale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 08:08 PM   #24
G-train
3-time NBA All-Star
 
G-train's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,859
G-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation hereG-train has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
As far as rebounding, Shaq had three seasons over 13 rpg, five over 12 rpg and ten seasons with atleast 11 rpg(Bird's career high). And that was with Shaq playing at a considerably slow pace meaning less rebounds available.

Rebounding? Bird was a 3/4 man that averaged 10.

So you are gonna say that Shaq was better, because he averaged more rebounds as a centre?

Get the FUCK outta here.
G-train is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 08:40 PM   #25
miller-time
NBA sixth man of the year
 
miller-time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 7,992
miller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

look at the physical gifts shaq has and compare it to what larry bird had to work with.

shaq in his prime was basically playing with cheat codes, while larry was playing with one arm tied behind his back.

larry was co captain of the dream team for a reason. something shaq never did.
miller-time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 08:44 PM   #26
CB4GOATPF
Local High School Star
 
CB4GOATPF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,204
CB4GOATPF has decent reputationCB4GOATPF has decent reputation
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekindled
besides the fact that Bird is a better shooter, better passer, better scorer, better leader, more clutch, more skilled, just as good rebounder?


Same reasons why Barkley is better than Duncan or Malone (this one even clear in the EFF; PER and Statistical Plus/Minus department and the head to heads when BOTH where healthy, not one healthy and the other not)

Shaq and Duncan as was Barkley better Impact Players but not Better All Around Skilled at Making Others Better: Reason why Bird has one of the Highest Statistical Plus/Minus Ever.

Last edited by CB4GOATPF : 12-10-2009 at 08:48 PM.
CB4GOATPF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 08:49 PM   #27
ShaqAttack3234
7-time NBA All-Star
 
ShaqAttack3234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,992
ShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-train
Rebounding? Bird was a 3/4 man that averaged 10.

So you are gonna say that Shaq was better, because he averaged more rebounds as a centre?

Get the FUCK outta here.

I said he was a better rebounder dumbass as in he could(and did) grab more rebounds. That was in response to the incorrect statement that Bird was the better rebounder. I didn't say that's why Shaq was the better player.
ShaqAttack3234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 09:17 PM   #28
ArizaAttack24
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
The difference is Wilt consistently choked; Bird and Magic may have lost but they weren't choking every year.

The era point is interesting. If eras are such a big deal, though, why are the players who are most commonly listed as #1 and #2 players whose best years came during the 70's and 90's? How often do you see Bird or Magic listed as the GOAT?

Marketing is a big factor. The NBA resurrected itself behind marketing Bird and Magic. Shaq never had such a marketing campaign behind him. He wasn't even marketed as Jordan's successor. They were always looking for perimeter players like Penny, Hill, and later Kobe and T Mac as the new big ticket.
Would you be able to blame someone who lost to someone who just cannot lose? Would you be able to blame someone who just absolutely knew everything about yourself, your weaknesses, your life, everything? Couldn't blame Wilt in that situation, Russell was just built to stop Wilt from creating a dynasty and created a dynasty of his own.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 09:18 PM   #29
ArizaAttack24
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
I said he was a better rebounder dumbass as in he could(and did) grab more rebounds. That was in response to the incorrect statement that Bird was the better rebounder. I didn't say that's why Shaq was the better player.
Shaq was a poor rebounder for his size and athleticism if anything, I truly hope you don't believe Shaq is better than Bird, it would be worse than your Dwight Howard love.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 09:25 PM   #30
Roundball_Rock
NBA lottery pick
 
Roundball_Rock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,742
Roundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation hereRoundball_Rock has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizaAttack24
Would you be able to blame someone who lost to someone who just cannot lose? Would you be able to blame someone who just absolutely knew everything about yourself, your weaknesses, your life, everything? Couldn't blame Wilt in that situation, Russell was just built to stop Wilt from creating a dynasty and created a dynasty of his own.

If Wilt was as good as some allege none of those excuses would be needed. It isn't as if he were playing with scrubs and getting blown out. Russell was 10-0 in Game 7's and 8 of those games were decided by 5 points or less (the two double digit wins were not against Wilt). Russell was able to muster that extra needed to win; Wilt couldn't. The year Wilt averaged 50 ppg in the regular season he averaged 35 in the playoffs and scored 22 in Game 7. If Wilt scored only half his usual production when it counted most his team would have won. Wilt's partisans blame bad luck for all his close losses but the real blame lies in Wilt being the only top 10 player of all-time to see his production decline sharply in the playoffs. Everyone else stayed about even (a feat given the fact you face tougher defenses in the playoffs) or improved.

Last edited by Roundball_Rock : 12-10-2009 at 09:27 PM.
Roundball_Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:52 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy