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Old 12-10-2009, 06:54 PM   #1
Carbine
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Default What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Everyone pretty much has Bird higher than those two by a few spots or so and I can make no valid argument as to why Bird was better than those two.

It can't be rings. It can't be individual accomplishments. It can't be who was better during their primes. It can't be longevity.

What is it?
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

besides the fact that Bird is a better shooter, better passer, better scorer, better leader, more clutch, more skilled, just as good rebounder?
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Everyone pretty much has Bird higher than those two by a few spots or so and I can make no valid argument as to why Bird was better than those two.

It can't be rings. It can't be individual accomplishments. It can't be who was better during their primes. It can't be longevity.

What is it?

Bird dominated for literally all the years he was playing, save for maybe his last. And the years he was consecutive MVP, I think it was a prime greater than either Shaq's or Duncan's.

Bird's best years were on par if not better than Jordan's. No kidding.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elementally morale
Bird dominated for literally all the years he was playing, save for maybe his last. And the years he was consecutive MVP, I think it was a prime greater than either Shaq's or Duncan's.

Bird's best years were on par if not better than Jordan's. No kidding.

Bird was the best player in the 80s(the goat era).
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekindled
besides the fact that Bird is a better shooter, better passer, better scorer, better leader, more clutch, more skilled, just as good rebounder?

Bird is not a better scorer than Shaq. Shaq was a better scorer and both Duncan and O'Neal are far better rebounders and much better defensively.

I rank Bird over Duncan, but a lot of your post is false.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Bird dominated for literally all the years he was playing, save for maybe his last. And the years he was consecutive MVP, I think it was a prime greater than either Shaq's or Duncan's.

Bird's best years were on par if not better than Jordan's. No kidding.

I don't believe that last part.

Bird would have to be an immensely better passer, rebounder & overall offensive player than Jordan was to make up for the huge disparity between their defensive impact.

And honestly, Jordan was a better offensive player, so Birds advantages in being a rebounder and passer were not huge enough to compensate for the advantages Jordan has over Bird.




And being "great" has something to do with how good you were at your best, but I think longevity plays a bigger role in greatness than in discussions of "who was better?"
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

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Originally Posted by Carbine
I don't believe that last part.

Why do you ask then?

I'm a Laker fan, so whn I say Bird was possibly on par with Jordan in his best years... Magic was not, and you know there was a rivalry.... so this Bird guy must have been pretty good...

It is personal preference though. Nowadays it is trendy to crown MJ as the clear cut GOAT. Guess what, he isn't. There were a few players not any worse than him. Kareem is another example.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Another thing about Bird to take into account is the MJ factor.

I'm a Bulls fan, and watching any close Bulls game (that MJ played in) I KNEW we were going to win. I also got that feeling with Kobe right after Shaq left, and with Peyton Manning this year.. Bird had it. Duncan and Shaq never did.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Factor in the Eras and that's why. Bird may have lost to Magic most of the time, but similar to Wilt Chamberlain, Wilt Losing to Russell makes his rankings go higher if anything, and the same thing goes for Bird losing to Magic.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
]Bird is not a better scorer than Shaq. Shaq was a better scorer and both Duncan and O'Neal are far better rebounders and much better defensively.

I rank Bird over Duncan, but a lot of your post is false.

bird and shaq right now both have career ppg of 24. shaq's gonna drop off after this year.

shaq career rpg = 11 , bird career rpg= 10. I dont see how 1 more rebound makes you a far better rebounder considering that shaq is like 4 inches taller than bird)
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekindled
bird and shaq right now both have career ppg of 24. shaq's gonna drop off after this year.

shaq career rpg = 11 , bird career rpg= 10. I dont see how 1 more rebound makes you a far better rebounder considering that shaq is like 4 inches taller than bird)


Not to mention Shaq's mass alone is far higher than Bird.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

It's not personal perference though. As good a player as Bird was, Jordan was better if we're strictly talking prime vs. prime.

Jordan was a better offensive and defensive player. Bird being the better passer/hustler/rebounder.... but clearly not enough to make up the difference.

Quote:
Factor in the Eras and that's why. Bird may have lost to Magic most of the time, but similar to Wilt Chamberlain, Wilt Losing to Russell makes his rankings go higher if anything, and the same thing goes for Bird losing to Magic.

Why would Bird losing to Magic/Lakers make him greater? That makes no sense to me. Wilt losing to Russell didn't make him rank higher - it's really the only thing keeping him from being the GOAT. He didn't embellish "the secret" nearly as much as Russell, thus why he lost more times than not.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

I think we are all finding that the differences in time periods and game styles makes this an impossible comparison.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

Such is Mango
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:37 PM   #15
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Default Re: What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

I hated Bird in the 80's, but give the man some respect, he was a pure clutch beast.
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