Would anyone here rate McHale higher than Karl Malone?

[Kblaze8855]

Why would someone put Mchale into Malones pick and roll situation? Its almost like trying to pick and roll with Shaq or Kareem. sure...its been done. But it isnt exactly needed. You might do it to suit your ball handler but its not what they are gonna do best.

And even if Malone is better than Mchale(an idea I wouldnt call exactly...wrong) that doesnt mean hes gonna be better suited for all teams or that his skills would be best leaned on to win big games.

To me its kinda like how building a team to suit Steve nashs skills makes you play a style not as likely to win as building one to suit some worse point guards who dont force you to fill your team with shooters/finishers.

Its rare you can really build a team to be led in the halfcourt by a point and win. It doesnt mean they arent good enough. It means that the shooters/off the ball quick finishers to help them be their best dont tend to also be defenders and great broken play scorers to make you play playoff ball.

I dont think its by chance so any great points dont win it all while great isolation players do.

I want my best player to be great at one of two things....

Helping my defense be world champion level....or scoring/helping us score in situations that cant be planned for. Get out of the way while the man brings it home scorers.

Mchale I think could do both at a level beyond Karl.

Which does not always make a player better. But more often than not it makes me want them over someone I cant expect either of those things from.

[97 bulls]

In their peaks Malone was not flat out better than McHale. McHale was a better offensive player in the half court set, they both had great playmakers around them, but Malone without a doubt relied more on Stockton than McHale relied on Bird.

Defensively, McHale was better as well, he was the more versatile defender being able to guard multiple positions effectively, both were very good low post defenders with McHale being the better shot blocker.

And I know I can depend on McHale more in big games, McHale always stepped it up when the season was on the line, can't say the same for Malone.

Both had great playmakers. But Mchale had the better teammates. Mchale was versilte defensively in that he could defend out on the perimeter. And he was defiinately the better low post scorer.

Malone was a very good defender as well. Not as versitle though. But his strength over mchale is running the floor, rebounding, and passing. And just overall scoring.


Obviously Malone didnt win as much as Mchale, but as I stated, he didnt have as good of the team. Im positiive Malones Jazz couldve beat those rocket teams the Celtics played against in 81 and 86.

[Kblaze8855]

Ball hog and black hole are the same thing. The meaning is youre an unwilling passer. At no point is it ok for you to be a ball hog or black hole. If youre interested in winning

Id say a ballhog is someone who keeps the ball when he shouldnt.Someone who freezes out his teammates partly out of being selfish.

I think a black hole is someone you give the ball when the offense doesnt expect to get it back.

Mchale was like an around the basket version of a great shooter catching the ball off a screen. Hes not selfish because he shoots it on a waaaaaaay higher percentage of his touches than most others. Hes doing what hes supposed to do when he gets the ball in that situation. And when Mchale gets the ball on the block guarded one on one....virtually every shot you can expect to get without a defensive mistake is gonna be less likely to go in.

So you have to ask...is it being selfish to shoot a shot you are more likely to make than anyone else?

Or is it bringing the play to its desired conclusion?

Mchale shooting so many of his touches is no more wrong to me than Peja in his prime shooting far more often for the time he had the ball than a more talented player like say...Kevin Garnett.

One is there to shoot. Shooting is what he is supposed to do.

[97 bulls]

Why would someone put Mchale into Malones pick and roll situation? Its almost like trying to pick and roll with Shaq or Kareem. sure...its been done. But it isnt exactly needed. You might do it to suit your ball handler but its not what they are gonna do best.

And even if Malone is better than Mchale(an idea I wouldnt call exactly...wrong) that doesnt mean hes gonna be better suited for all teams or that his skills would be best leaned on to win big games.

To me its kinda like how building a team to suit Steve nashs skills makes you play a style not as likely to win as building one to suit some worse point guards who dont force you to fill your team with shooters/finishers.

Its rare you can really build a team to be led in the halfcourt by a point and win. It doesnt mean they arent good enough. It means that the shooters/off the ball quick finishers to help them be their best dont tend to also be defenders and great broken play scorers to make you play playoff ball.

I dont think its by chance so any great points dont win it all while great isolation players do.

I want my best player to be great at one of two things....

Helping my defense be world champion level....or scoring/helping us score in situations that cant be planned for. Get out of the way while the man brings it home scorers.

Mchale I think could do both at a level beyond Karl.

Which does not always make a player better. But more often than not it makes me want them over someone I cant expect either of those things from.

Im not saying put Mchale in the another situation. Obviously you want to cater to his strengths. My point is in my opinion, youre not fairly comparing the two when you compare them based on Mchales strengths.


It almost seems as if youre implying that Mchale would be the better franchise player.

[1987_Lakers]

It is, Malone did that for over 10-12 seasons. McHale maybe 2..

What is your point? I already said Malone is ranked higher in an all-time list because of that.

[1987_Lakers]

Obviously Malone didnt win as much as Mchale, but as I stated, he didnt have as good of the team. Im positiive Malones Jazz couldve beat those rocket teams the Celtics played against in 81 and 86.

It's not even about winning, McHale always stepped up his game in important playoff series'.

'85 Finals? McHale was Boston's best player.
'86 Finals? Ended up with the most points even with Bird & Hakeem on the floor.
'87 Postseason? Played entire playoffs' with broken foot and still produced.
'88 duel between Bird-Nique in game 7? McHale had 33 pts & 13 reb in that game.
'88 BOS-DET series when Boston finally lost? McHale was Boston's best player.

And we already know Malone's reputation in big games.

[BoutPractice]

Prime McHale is the one I'd prefer on my team. Not only are his scoring skills harder to replace, but his defense is more valuable.
There's a difference between a "blackhole" and a "finisher", and McHale is the latter. I'd rather have his 2 efficient points than a great pass to a 45% scorer.

However, Malone's career is significantly more impressive, and makes it very difficult to rank McHale above him. Malone simply outworked better players all the way to an all-time great career.

[L.Kizzle]

It's not even about winning, McHale always stepped up his game in important playoff series'.

'85 Finals? McHale was Boston's best player.
'86 Finals? Ended up with the most points even with Bird & Hakeem on the floor.
'87 Postseason? Played entire playoffs' with broken foot and still produced.
'88 duel between Bird-Nique in game 7? McHale had 33 pts & 13 reb in that game.
'88 BOS-DET series when Boston finally lost? McHale was Boston's best player.

And we already know Malone's reputation in big games.

It's easier to step up your game when you're not the focal point of your team. Any day it could have been Bird, DJ or Parish.

With the Jazz, it was KARL MALONE ...

[97 bulls]

It's not even about winning, McHale always stepped up his game in important playoff series'.

'85 Finals? McHale was Boston's best player.
'86 Finals? Ended up with the most points even with Bird & Hakeem on the floor.
'87 Postseason? Played entire playoffs' with broken foot and still produced.
'88 duel between Bird-Nique in game 7? McHale had 33 pts & 13 reb in that game.
'88 BOS-DET series when Boston finally lost? McHale was Boston's best player.

And we already know Malone's reputation in big games.

Mchale a great player. But no matter how you slice it, Malone was better.

[1987_Lakers]

Mchale a great player. But no matter how you slice it, Malone was better.

Wow, you've swayed me. Malone is better.

[1987_Lakers]

Prime McHale is the one I'd prefer on my team. Not only are his scoring skills harder to replace, but his defense is more valuable.
There's a difference between a "blackhole" and a "finisher", and McHale is the latter. I'd rather have his 2 efficient points than a great pass to a 45% scorer.

However, Malone's career is significantly more impressive, and makes it very difficult to rank McHale above him. Malone simply outworked better players all the way to an all-time great career.

[Micku]

I would probably take a peak Mchale over K.Malone.

Mchale could run the floor pretty well, but not as well as K.Malone obviously. Mchale is better in the post and more efficient in the offense. He was one of the couple of players that scored 26 ppg on 60% shooting. He was versatile defender too. Mchale was called the blackhole, but he was better in his passing ability in 1985-1986 season. His rebounding ability was solid, but he was competing against Bird, Parish, and Walton a little bit. He had to guard SF at times. Mchale also stepped up in the playoffs. You could argue that Bird and Parish took the pressure off of him, but you could also argue that Mchale was their best and most dangerous weapon at times.

But career wise, I would take a K.Malone over Mchale. Much better longevity, and already proven franchise player. K.Malone career accomplishments sets him above Mchale.

K.Malone was a great fast break player. His strength and agility/speed makes him difficult to guard. He actually improved with age and his prime seemed like it occurred when he was in his 30s. He became a better defender and a better post player. So, his longevity sets him above Mchale.

But I would rather take a prime Mchale over prime K.Malone. Especially in the playoffs.

[1987_Lakers]

It's easier to step up your game when you're not the focal point of your team. Any day it could have been Bird, DJ or Parish.

With the Jazz, it was KARL MALONE ...

Except Malone never stepped up his game.

Also think it's very bias to add Parish & DJ and completely ignore Stockton. lol

[WockaVodka]

I find it rather odd that a username named 1987 Lakers is constantly defending the Celtics.

[Kblaze8855]

He would be the better player for the kind of franchise id attempt to build. But that isnt the world we live in now is it?

Its well known I dont like Karl Malone and I felt he was overrated for a long long time. Doesnt mean all even somewhat great forwards are better than him. It doesnt mean Mchale is better than him.

But I dont know if the team best for Malone is as likely to win in the playoffs than the team best built around Mchale. All we saw of Mchale as "The man" was him kinda co leading the 89 Celtics. Didnt go well. But that doesnt mean it cant work when the team is built for him over a period of years.

A lot of teams have won leaning on the skills Mchale had and playing defense that he would make easy. When I can rely on my power forward to guard a Nique/Melo/Lebron/whoever or Dirk/KG/Duncan and he can play the pik and roll...and run the floor....blocks shots off the ball and has the insane wingspan to play off quick players and still contest shots?

A defensive minded coach would be up giddy thinking of the ways you could build around that.

When that guy can also score around the basket as well as just about anyone ever?

You can do some big things.

Karl did big things. But his career was big loss after big loss and many were because the second leading scorer ever couldnt be relied on to get good shots on command at the same rate as many of his star opponents.

Considering his contributions to his team for nearly 20 years and helping them be a good team for most of that time....its hard to say Mchale would be a better franchise player.

Its not hard for me to say id rather try to win with Mchale though.
Maybe its because I hate Malone. But a LOT of people think I hate dirk. Ive been accused of it this week. But I said this 5 years ago after the worst moment of his career(just lost in 07):

Give me Dirk to make a shot for the title over Drob, Ewing, Malone, .

Which inspired someone to ask:

On what basis?

IMO Dirk is a notch below these players, both in the clutch and overall.

None of those players had a series like the GSW one for Dirk. That's pressure and he epically failed.

No they didnt.....but really. Its game 7 of the finals....you have foolishly bet your rent money on this series. The team you bet on has one shot to win it all. down 1 with 4 seconds. Dirk or Karl Malone have a play of their choice run for them to take the last shot. No to just make a play.....to take the shot.

You have more faith in Karl Malone?

Better hope its not Sunday....

Well I'd prefer neither if they are gonna shoot a p*ssy fadeaway from 18 feet.
:)

Last I said on it:

Know what? As ****ed up as it is give me Dirk shooting an inexplicable fadeaway over a guard for the title over Karl Malone shooting a FT for the title. He just doesnt have it in him. I could see Dirk hitting it and running around looking hard in a way that makes you think "Maaaaaan...sit your ass down" before I see Karl Malone calmly sinking an uncontested shot for the ring.

And I supposedly hate dirk. And it was at the lowest/most hated on point of his career.

But Dirk has something Karl never did...and he proved it. Much as people hated at the time...it was there. Dirk...can score when he shouldnt be able to. He can score when there is nothing to suggest what hes taking is a good shot. You get out of his way and let him work.

Mchale has some of that in him. Karl has it when his jumper is going. But Mchale? I can post him up every time and expect a good result. would it eventually test his ability to move the ball when doubled? Sure.

But Kevin mchale could pass. Ive seen him make some very good passes. Kevin Mchale didnt pass. because he wasnt supposed to. But I dont think he would jsut go a career without learning when to move the ball.

That advantage he has as a "Things are falling apart...lets give it to the man" scorer is major to me. And he combines that with what id call more valuable and much more well rounded defense.

Id like to see what I could do with him. I saw what Karl could do. Its impressive...but its not what id want to repeat in the hopes that this time around I dont need him to go off down the stretch for us to win. It happens with some teams. But they tend to have an epic defense. And Mchale is more likely to contribute to that as well. I believe so at least. Im sure it doesnt show in the numbers.