2008 Lakers or the 2006 Heat

[LoneyROY7]

Would be a really fun series.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Shaq be nimble wasn't the offensive player he used to be, but guy still rebounded and played very good defense. Then you had Alonzo Mourning coming off the bench putting in work...

I think the series goes 7, but I would roll with Miami (far more matchups to be exploited on the Lakers). Assuming Wade doesn't shoot an absurd amount of freethrows on TONS of bullshyt calls, this would be a great matchup.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I would take a healthy Laker team, even if the bench our bench was horrible..

Kobe absolutly went off when playing against O'Neal, and by 08 Kobe had matured to the point where he could efficiently channel that aggression on the basketball court

Kobe averaged 35 ppg on 46% when playing opposite of O'neal

and even led the Lakers to a victory over the 06 HEAT, dropped 37 in both games and split the 06 series 1-1 with Kwame Brown guarding O'Neal..

[Gotterdammerung]

So were the Spurs and they lost to the Lakers in 5. There's a big difference between being a top 3 defensive team one year and arguably the best defensive team since the late 80's pistons. Celtics defense is just ridiculous, I don't think anyone has seen defense like this in a long time.

If the Lakers can beat a 4 time champion with 3 all stars and the greatest coach in the league in 5 games, then they can take out the Miami Heat.

By 2008, Tim Duncan was in a steep decline. He couldn't score on Gasol in that series - a pathetic sight.

He did not get out of this slow slide to mediocrity until 2011-2012 season when he lost weight and changed his game, and the Spurs turned into an offensive machine as a result.

[Smoke117]

Wait...did people actually watch the 08 Celtics vs Laker series? People are acting like the Celtics were triple teaming when they were rarely even doubling Kobrick. The fact of the matter is by 08 Kobe was mostly a jump shooter...its why Ray Allen could be effective against him in the 08 and 10 finals defending him even at his age...Kobe was much more likely to take the 18 foot jump shot than try and get to the rim. He has always been more likely to go to the jump shot than drive in general (which is why his comparison to Jordan makes no sense...as up until he got around 29 himself he was always trying to get to the rim), but by the 2008 season he was ALWAYS more likely to settle for the jumper than go to the rim.

The reason I bring this up is...do people actually think he would do better against Dwade defending than Allen and Pierce?...because that's hilarious. It's not like the Heat didn't have able rim protectors either with Shaq and Zo. Alonzo was huge during the regular season, but because of match ups really didn't play all that much in the playoffs and especially in the finals...and that makes sense. The Mavs were a jump shooting team, period. That's just who they were and Alonzo just didn't make a lot of sense to be out there as far as match ups go. The Lakers of 08-10 were built on that huge front court though. (something cryant fans put aside to prop up their lover) Zo would be out there a lot vs them and he was a complete monster off the bench those seasons. Easily the most effective defensive player in the league when he was on the court in 05, 06, 07.

It's just absurd to say Kobe would do better vs the Heat when being defended by a guy who is a better defensive player than Allen or Pierce and especially when the Celtics rarely went to double him. Maybe that says more about Kobe than anything else? For all this dick sucking he gets he couldn't even go off on a past his prime Ray Allen who just had double ankle surgery during the preseason and spent the entire season working his way back. Though to be fair to Ray he is an underrated 1 on 1 defensive player and RARELY ever falls for shot fakes...which was Kobe's bread and butter to get to the rim by this time.

[Magic 32]

Wait...did people actually watch the 08 Celtics vs Laker series? People are acting like the Celtics were triple teaming when they were rarely even doubling Kobrick. The fact of the matter is by 08 Kobe was mostly a jump shooter...its why Ray Allen could be effective against him in the 08 and 10 finals defending him even at his age...Kobe was much more likely to take the 18 foot jump shot than try and get to the rim. He has always been more likely to go to the jump shot than drive in general (which is why his comparison to Jordan makes no sense...as up until he got around 29 himself he was always trying to get to the rim), but by the 2008 season he was ALWAYS more likely to settle for the jumper than go to the rim.

The reason I bring this up is...do people actually think he would do better against Dwade defending than Allen and Pierce?...because that's hilarious. It's not like the Heat didn't have able rim protectors either with Shaq and Zo. Alonzo was huge during the regular season, but because of match ups really didn't play all that much in the playoffs and especially in the finals...and that makes sense. The Mavs were a jump shooting team, period. That's just who they were and Alonzo just didn't make a lot of sense to be out there as far as match ups go. The Lakers of 08-10 were built on that huge front court though. Zo would be out there a lot vs them and he was a complete monster off the bench those seasons. Easily the most effective defensive player in the league when he was on the court in 05, 06, 07.

It's just absurd to say Kobe would do better vs the Heat when being defended by a guy who is a better defensive player than Allen or Pierce and especially when the Celtics rarely went to double him. Maybe that says more about Kobe than anything else? For all this dick sucking he gets he couldn't even go off on a past his prime Ray Allen who just had double ankle surgery during the preseason and spent the entire season working his way back. Though to be fair to Ray he is an underrated 1 on 1 defensive player and RARELY ever falls for shot fakes...which was Kobe's bread and butter to get to the rim by this time.

In what game did Ray stop Kobe?

Game 2 in 2010? when Ray flopped Kobe out of the game?

It was Pierce, Posey and Tony Allen that did the most to bother Kobe.

[Magic 32]

By 2008, Tim Duncan was in a steep decline. He couldn't score on Gasol in that series - a pathetic sight.

Pau did &

[Smoke117]

In what game did Ray stop Kobe?

Game 2 in 2010? when Ray flopped Kobe out of the game?

It was Pierce, Posey and Tony Allen that did the most to bother Kobe.

I'm just laughing...you are basically one of the biggest kobe dick suckers here...who literally goes into every thread against kobe or for lebron just to make some snide remark like you mean something. You dont mean shit to nobody kiddo. For all your remarks, Ray defended Kobe more than anyone in the 2008 and 2010 series...Kobe couldn't go off on ANYBODY on the celtics...even Ray Allen a guy who had a reputation as a poor defensive player. I noticed you didn't try and deny that Kobe wasn't even doubled most of the time...it was almost always one on one because that's how the Celtics played defense...and it's why Dwade ate up Ray Ray in the 2010 playoffs...which Kobe didn't even come close to doing lol. Kobe is so good though? such a terrific scorer...I mean he scored 81 points against the pathetic and horrific raptors right? I mean 81 points in a game and couldn't even go off against Ray Allen in 2010 when he Ray was 34? I guess He's not that great if he can't even go off with the Celtics defending him one on one with Ray Allen.

[Magic 32]

I'm just laughing...you are basically one of the biggest kobe dick suckers here...who literally goes into every thread against kobe or for lebron just to make some snide remark like you mean something. You dont mean shit to nobody kiddo. For all your remarks, Ray defended Kobe more than anyone in the 2008 and 2010 series...Kobe couldn't go off on ANYBODY on the celtics...even Ray Allen a guy who had a reputation as a poor defensive player. I noticed you didn't try and deny that Kobe wasn't even doubled most of the time...it was almost always one on one because that's how the Celtics played defense...and it's why Dwade ate up Ray Ray in the 2010 playoffs...which Kobe didn't even come close to doing lol. Kobe is so good though? such a terrific scorer...I mean he scored 81 points against the pathetic and horrific raptors right? I mean 81 points in a game and couldn't even go off against Ray Allen in 2010 when he Ray was 34? I guess He's not that great if he can't even go off with the Celtics defending him one on one with Ray Allen.

Can you name a game instead of whining? Because I have all of those finals games. Please.....name a game. Let's go.

And you can't use these games because Kobe was scoring on Ray without any problems. So don't use any of them please...

2008
Game 2
Game 3

2010

Game 1
Game 4
Game 5
Game 6


Oh and Kobe scored 62 points against the WC champs in 2006. And he is the only player to score 40+ against the Spurs in the playoffs and win (twice by the way).

So come up with something more original than hating on the 81 point game (absurd by the way).

[Smoke117]

Can you name a game instead of whining? Because I have all of those finals games. Please.....name a game. Let's go.

And you can't use these games because Kobe was scoring on Ray without any problems. So don't use any of them please...

2008
Game 2
Game 3

2010

Game 1
Game 4
Game 5
Game 6


Oh and Kobe scored 62 points against the WC champs in 2006. And he is the only player to score 40+ against the Spurs in the playoffs and win (twice by the way).

So come up with something more original than hating on the 81 point game (absurd by the way).

You're adorable. You went through all those key pushes for something I didn't even read. I guess you win...lol. I already pushed your shit in once...and i'm not quite in the mood to again...yet.

[Gileraracer]

No answer for Shaquille, so probably Miami.

2006 is not that 3peat Shaq we knew, he was old and fat, averaging 14 / 10.

Heat 06 was a joke, Wade had around 16 FTA per game, some of these calls where straight bull$h!t.
Everytime he couldn't score the refs blew the whistle.

[aj1987]

2006 is not that 3peat Shaq we knew, he was old and fat, averaging 14 / 10.

Heat 06 was a joke, Wade had around 16 FTA per game, some of these calls where straight bull$h!t.
Everytime he couldn't score the refs blew the whistle.

And Dirk averaged 0.9 fewer FT's than Wade that entire PO's.

Right here:

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php?t=126843

Interesting facts:

In this playoff run, Dirk Nowitzki sets a record for must FT's hit during the playoffs shooting 209-229. Wade on the other hand shoots 202-250 with both players playing 23 games in the playoffs that year. For a player who is more of a slasher, Wade only managed to get 21 more free throws?

Furthermore, Wade shot 10 and 14 free throws in the first two games, so its not like he just got more free throws the next few games. He was already getting to the line a lot.

The total foul count in the series was 146 fouls committed by the Miami Heat and 160 fouls committed by the Mavericks. Fairly equal if anything.

Furthermore, it's amazing it was soo close considering the Heat have Shaq and Wade on their team. Wade is a driver who gets a lot of free throws anyway, and Shaq is a guy who teams love to send to the line. Also, the Mavericks were more of a jumpshooting team, with most of their driving coming from Harris and Howard.

Quick facts:
--Miami outrebounded the Mavs in 4 of the 6 games in the series.
--In the 4 games Miami won, they shot better in 3 of those matchups, with the only time they shot worse being by .8 of a %.
--Miami shot less threes then the Dallas team in 5 of the 6 games. The one time they shot more threes then the Dallas team, they lost.

Game 3:
Mavericks up 83-71 with 8:30 left. A lot of people claim that the refs took over here and helped guide Wade to victory.
Up to the 3rd quarter Wade had shot 15 free throws. In the 4th quarter, Wade shot only 3 free throws, and only 1 free throw within the 8:30 left. So the two other free throws he shot were before the 12 point lead the Mavs had.

Not to mention with the game score was 97-95 in favor of the Heat with 3 seconds to go and Dirk gets given 2 free throws. So the Mavs were given a chance to tie the game, and Dirk only hit 1 of 2 free throws to make the score 97-96 in favor of the Heat.

So in actual fact, Wade got no free throws in that 8:30, due to the free throws he recieved being out of desperation and the Mavs hacking to be able to get another shot off. So a total of 0 shooting fouls were called for Wade in the 4th.


Game 4:
98-74 win for the Heat. Mavs shot 31% and Wade had 9 free throws. Nothing to talk about really. Mavs completely outplayed.

Game 5:
This is the game where Wade goes onto shoot as many free throws as the entire Dallas team. 21-25 went Wade and 21-25 went Dallas. Game went into overtime as well.
Wade had 22 points going into the 4th quarter. Wade scored 17 in the 4th quarter with the last 6 points all coming from jumpers. Even the game tying shot was a jumper to level the game at 93-93 with 2 seconds left. No free throws needed. 7 of Wade's 17 points came from FT's. So he basically maintained his average foul shot per quarter rate in the 4th.

Then in the overtime, the score was 100-99 in favor of the Mavs with 2 seconds left and Wade was given 2 free throws. As many of you know, at the time there was great debate as to whether this was a foul or not. The play involved Harris and Nowitzki both hacking Wade and Nowitzki being called for the foul.



That was the play for those who have forgot. Many people say this wasn't a foul. Now take a look at what happened on this play:


Harris' leg clearly fouling Wade.

Also:
Dirk giving Wade a huge shove, just look at the amount of contact.



Not to mention Harris grabbed Wade's other hand on the way to the basket, but I don't have a picture. He didn't just slap it, but grabbed it and didn't allow Wade to have shooting motion. That is a foul even in late game situations. Two players hacking and getting a huge amount of contact. On his leg, one arm and pushing on his back. That has to get called even in the dying seconds.

EDIT: Picture found.



Harris' grabbing Wade's shooting arm, pretty much not allowing a shot to be attempted.

Game 6:

Heat win the championship with a 95-92 win. No controversy here

Wade had the best Finals performance in NBA History... Putting the team on his back in the Final 4 games (all wins) and scored over 35 pts per game in each one:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...Performances-1

^ GREATEST Finals Performance EVER !!

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...5&postcount=19

[QUOTE=ImKobe]The opposing team couldn't stop Wade without fouling, so he exploited that and won his team the game?

They changed the rules to get the scoring back up after the 04 season, handchecking was made illegal. It's why guys like Kobe,Lebron and AI had huge gains in the PPG department in 05-06, they learned how to exploit the new rules that favored the offensive player.

Here's a good post

[QUOTE]From his Blog Maverick weblog, Mark Cuban's article 'If It

[Gileraracer]

And Dirk averaged 0.9 fewer FT's than Wade that entire PO's.

Idiot.

Talking about finals.


Dirk: 55 FTA
Wade: 97 FTA

----

Heat: 207 FTA
Mavs: 155 FTA
Difference: 52 FTA
Games played: 6

Let me help you, I don't think you can do it: 52/6 = 8,7

so every game they had the chance to get nearly 9 extra points with free throws.

Heat won:
3rd Game by 2 points
5th game by 1 Point
6th game by 3 points

thank the refs.

But since your Quote Comes from a guy called "Heat007" I don't think he is biased.

Idiot.

[aj1987]

Talking about finals.


Dirk: 55 FTA
Wade: 97 FTA

----

Heat: 207 FTA
Mavs: 155 FTA
Difference: 52 FTA
Games played: 6

Let me help you, I don't think you can do it: 52/6 = 8,7

so every game they had the chance to get nearly 9 extra points with free throws.

Wade, arguably the GOAT slasher not names MJ, and Shaq accounted for ~75% of those FT's. Tell me again why the Mav's deserve the same number of FT's as the Heat?

Heat won:
3rd Game by 2 points
5th game by 1 Point
6th game by 3 points

Game 3:

Miami got 8 more FT's than Dallas. The Heat attempted 9 in the 4th and Dallas attempted 6. 4 of those FT's were due to intentional fouling by the Mav's. Oh, and Wade scored 13 points on jumpers and layups in the 4th. The game was actually tied at 95 with ~25 seconds to go and GP hit the go ahead jumper. Where were the refs then? Guess what? Literally a couple of seconds after GP hit that mid-range jumper from the left, Dirk gets 2 FT's and he choked.

Game 5 (from the previous post since you obviously didn't read it):

This is the game where Wade goes onto shoot as many free throws as the entire Dallas team. 21-25 went Wade and 21-25 went Dallas. Game went into overtime as well.
Wade had 22 points going into the 4th quarter. Wade scored 17 in the 4th quarter with the last 6 points all coming from jumpers. Even the game tying shot was a jumper to level the game at 93-93 with 2 seconds left. No free throws needed. 7 of Wade's 17 points came from FT's. So he basically maintained his average foul shot per quarter rate in the 4th.

Then in the overtime, the score was 100-99 in favor of the Mavs with 2 seconds left and Wade was given 2 free throws. As many of you know, at the time there was great debate as to whether this was a foul or not. The play involved Harris and Nowitzki both hacking Wade and Nowitzki being called for the foul.



That was the play for those who have forgot. Many people say this wasn't a foul. Now take a look at what happened on this play:


Harris' leg clearly fouling Wade.

Also:
Dirk giving Wade a huge shove, just look at the amount of contact.



Not to mention Harris grabbed Wade's other hand on the way to the basket, but I don't have a picture. He didn't just slap it, but grabbed it and didn't allow Wade to have shooting motion. That is a foul even in late game situations. Two players hacking and getting a huge amount of contact. On his leg, one arm and pushing on his back. That has to get called even in the dying seconds.

EDIT: Picture found.



Harris' grabbing Wade's shooting arm, pretty much not allowing a shot to be attempted.

thank the refs.

No thanks. I'll thank Riley for drafting Wade and acquiring Shaq.

But since your Quote Comes from a guy called "Heat007" I don't think he is biased.

Must be hard to deal with FACTS.

I'm an idiot.

Yes. Yes you are.

[JohnnySic]

7 game series. Heat win. Antoine Walker is the difference.