Worst player with whom you can win, and best player with whom you can't?

[ArbitraryWater]

Wallace isn't top 50.. right?

I see Kawhi being a Pippen lite player.

Got all the tools, not as skilled of a playmaker though.

[GrapeApe]

Are the bad boy Pistons too "stacked" to qualify? Maybe Isiah Thomas? I guess if the '04 Pistons don't count Isiah's Pistons wouldn't either. Maybe Dennis Johnson from the '79 Sonics?

[kshutts1]

Tried to look at it logically, and failed. Pretty much just looking at the 25th or so best player in the league for "best you can win with" but that's assuming a well- built and coached roster.
For instance, I could certainly see a fully healthy Hawks team winning it all. Obviously not favorites, but with Horford, it's possible. And where's he rank in best players? 15? 20?
Or what about Charlotte? Again, not likely. But if Chicago beats Cleveland in a tough 7 game series, I think Charlotte would have a shot against Chicago. And, let's be real, the Spurs will get old... won't they? Ever? Anyway, Stephenson is, like Horford, top 20.

I don't know. Super hard question to answer. In today's league, I think that Stephenson, Dragic, Lawson, Wade, Kobe.. that tier of player... is the "worst" that can win a title as The Man.
All time? Probably the same group of guys. I don't have the knowledge of the "average" star from earlier decades, but the above guys are certainly just average stars at this point.

The best to lose? Chris Paul. And it's not his fault. I love his game, he's a fabulous player. But anyone who's game is about making those around him better will struggle to lead a team to a title as the best player. If Paul wins a title, Griffin will be the best player.
For all time, same as above. Chris Paul, John Stockton.. not their faults, though.

[Milbuck]

Tried to look at it logically, and failed. Pretty much just looking at the 25th or so best player in the league for "best you can win with" but that's assuming a well- built and coached roster.
For instance, I could certainly see a fully healthy Hawks team winning it all. Obviously not favorites, but with Horford, it's possible. And where's he rank in best players? 15? 20?
Or what about Charlotte? Again, not likely. But if Chicago beats Cleveland in a tough 7 game series, I think Charlotte would have a shot against Chicago. And, let's be real, the Spurs will get old... won't they? Ever? Anyway, Stephenson is, like Horford, top 20.

I don't know. Super hard question to answer. In today's league, I think that Stephenson, Dragic, Lawson, Wade, Kobe.. that tier of player... is the "worst" that can win a title as The Man.
All time? Probably the same group of guys. I don't have the knowledge of the "average" star from earlier decades, but the above guys are certainly just average stars at this point.

The best to lose? Chris Paul. And it's not his fault. I love his game, he's a fabulous player. But anyone who's game is about making those around him better will struggle to lead a team to a title as the best player. If Paul wins a title, Griffin will be the best player.
For all time, same as above. Chris Paul, John Stockton.. not their faults, though.

I don’t know if CP3 falls under normal circumstances though..he hasn’t been at his best for years now. I certainly think 2007-2009 CP3 could’ve been a championship centerpiece. Replace him on the 2011 Bulls for Rose and I don’t know, they might win it all. That 5 game series was a lot closer than 5 games. And CP3’s skill set, IQ, and experience won’t get locked up by Lebron.

[ArbitraryWater]

[QUOTE=Milbuck]I don

[SHAQisGOAT]

Worst player with whom you can win:
Extremely tough to give a "good" answer... I mean, you can go off on hypotheticals but I can also bring up the facts and mention teams like the 2004 Pistons or the 1979 SuperSonics.
Hard to say because it depends heavily on how the team's constructed.
Not with a super stacked roster? I don't man, do you consider the 1978 Bullets as a super stacked roster? I don't think so, and they've won with Elvin Hayes as their best player...

Best player with whom you can't win:
Probably Pistol Pete (in terms of talent/skill).

[kshutts1]

[QUOTE=Milbuck]I don

[Le Shaqtus]

Them being the best player on a 2011 Mavs kind of team?

Worst (you can win with) - Russell Westbrook.

Best (who can't win) - Melo

This

[SugarHill]

Wallace isn't top 50.. right?

I see Kawhi being a Pippen lite player.

Got all the tools, not as skilled of a playmaker though.

I don't think Kawhi will ever reach a level where I'd take him over a prime Ben Wallace, but that's just me.

[scm5]

Worst you can win with: Chauncey Billups. The Pistons weren't necessarily super stacked, but they were well coached and put together.

Best player you can't win with: Kevin Love. I know his career is still young, but it's a damn good thing he's playing with Lebron.

[ImKobe]

Worst you can win with - Kawhi, I'm just basing it off what he did last year. He's not a bad player, but he's far from a superstar or a guy that would carry a team for a full season + Playoffs

HM: Billups, Parker

Best you can't win with - CP3, he's been the best point guard for years and has led the league in steals a ton of times and what not, pretty much does everything, yet it doesn't show in the Playoffs. He seems to be allergic when it comes to getting out of the semis. There's no excuse for that choke he had in OKC. Clippers coulda win that series in 6 if CP3 showed up when it mattered.

I'd also nominate Dwight and Melo.

[T_L_P]

I don't think Kawhi will ever reach a level where I'd take him over a prime Ben Wallace, but that's just me.

Prime Ben Wallace was a top 3 all time defensive player.

[Suguru101]

Prime Ben Wallace was a top 3 all time defensive player.

No, he wasn't.

Russell
Wilt
Jabbar
Walton (for 1-2 years)
Hakeem
Ewing
Howard (2009-11/12)
Robinson
Duncan
Garnett

Some are arguable, but all have a case and at least half are definitely over him.

[kshutts1]

No, he wasn't.

Russell
Wilt
Jabbar
Walton (for 1-2 years)
Hakeem
Ewing
Howard (2009-11/12)
Robinson
Duncan
Garnett

Some are arguable, but all have a case and at least half are definitely over him.

Prime Wallace is on par with everyone listed, with the * being that I didn't watch Russell, Wilt, Jabbar, Walton.

[Suguru101]

Prime Wallace is on par with everyone listed, with the * being that I didn't watch Russell, Wilt, Jabbar, Walton.

Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, 2009-2011 Dwight and Prime Duncan had more defensive impact than Ben Wallace.