Why is Mandela celebrated?

[sweggeh]

The guy was a known terrorist who bombed many building and killed a lot of innocent people. It doesn't matter what he was fighting for, because every terrorist believes what they are doing is right.

He bombed train stations, shopping complexes, cinemas, in fact overall he was guilty of 156 acts of terrorism. He killed many, and I mean MANY, innocent men, women and children in South Africa.

Why is he loved and his actions brushed under the carpet? I understand he was a large part of the battle against racism in South Africa and throughout the world, but it doesn't change the fact he actually killed innocent people through terrorist bombing. Can someone please explain this?

[TheReal Kendall]

Was what he was fighting for right?

[sweggeh]

Was what he was fighting for right?

It doesnt matter. No matter what you are fighting for, you cannot kill thousands of innocent people and blow up hundred of heavily populated civilian sites and then claim you were fighting for something righteous.

[ArbitraryWater]

I take it you need a debate, something to discuss?

Either that or you're on some cheap paraga right now

[sweggeh]

I take it you need a debate, something to discuss?

Either that or you're on some cheap paraga right now

But everything I have said is fact?

[gigantes]

The guy was a known terrorist who bombed many building and killed a lot of innocent people. It doesn't matter what he was fighting for, because every terrorist believes what they are doing is right.

He bombed train stations, shopping complexes, cinemas, in fact overall he was guilty of 156 acts of terrorism. He killed many, and I mean MANY, innocent men, women and children in South Africa.

Why is he loved and his actions brushed under the carpet? I understand he was a large part of the battle against racism in South Africa and throughout the world, but it doesn't change the fact he actually killed innocent people through terrorist bombing. Can someone please explain this?

i'm walking out the door right now, but AFAIK the bombings were from a period in which his group were committing acts of sabotage in response to much more direct and sustained brutality by the regime. his directions and philosophy aimed for no violence against ppl directly.


also... you might want to put this in perspective-- that stuff was a small fraction of all the brave deeds, good works, and long suffering he went through.

[BasedTom]

i'm walking out the door right now, but AFAIK the bombings were from a period in which his group were committing acts of sabotage in response to much more direct and sustained brutality by the regime. his directions and philosophy aimed for no violence against ppl directly.


also... you might want to put this in perspective-- that stuff was a small fraction of all the brave deeds, good works, and long suffering he went through.

OK

But try telling that to the innocent people he killed and their affected families

[Rodmantheman]

[bladefd]

The guy was a known terrorist who bombed many building and killed a lot of innocent people. It doesn't matter what he was fighting for, because every terrorist believes what they are doing is right.

He bombed train stations, shopping complexes, cinemas, in fact overall he was guilty of 156 acts of terrorism. He killed many, and I mean MANY, innocent men, women and children in South Africa.

Why is he loved and his actions brushed under the carpet? I understand he was a large part of the battle against racism in South Africa and throughout the world, but it doesn't change the fact he actually killed innocent people through terrorist bombing. Can someone please explain this?

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. It's like saying "Martin Luther King Jr was an extremist because he was connected with Malcolm X, who was willing to go to any measures to get rid of segregation"

Mandela was initially part of the group that went to such extreme measures you highlighted, but Mandela wasn't the one ordering deaths of innocent people. Mandela and the group he was affiliated with both wanted the same ends and initially shared similar means to that end. Mandela went to jail and he came out to reach the end he fought for, but with different means.

They were both on same side from the perspective that they wanted to end apartheid. To say that Mandela was responsible for those extreme measures shows either a) you have no idea what you're talking about or b) you're trolling.

If it's a, do learn the entire history. If it's b, then you deserve your red bars.

[IcanzIIravor]

OK

But try telling that to the innocent people he killed and their affected families

Freedom isn't always earned through peaceful means sadly. South Africa was brutal in its treatment of black South Africans during that time period. Peaceful demonstrations against apartheid were met with brutality, if I recall correctly. He was originally committed to peaceful protests, but due to how such protests and protesters were treated he turned militant in 1961 and helped lead a sabotage campaign. He was arrested in 1962 and sentenced to life imprisonment. There were no angels in power in South Africa in those years. He is celebrated because he had a profound change in prison that carried over even when he was freed and became the President of that country.

[gigantes]

OK

But try telling that to the innocent people he killed and their affected families

well, if they're outraged by mandela, then they're also likely outraged by a butterfly that flew across their path and caused them to trip and spill the pitcher of water they were carrying.


isn't life terribly harsh and full of random motherf--kers out to get you, mister based tom?

[GimmeThat]

because of the improvement in the quality of life of South Africans today is generally associated and credited to Mandela.

[BasedTom]

well, if they're outraged by mandela, then they're also likely outraged by a butterfly that flew across their path and caused them to trip and spill the pitcher of water they were carrying.


isn't life terribly harsh and full of random motherf--kers out to get you, mister based tom?

Mandela undoubtedly fought for his people and has impressive accomplishments.

But to bury the unsavory parts of the story is rather disgraceful. He was not an untouchable saint. There are those who were positively affected by him, and those who were affected in the worst possible way. In struggles like that, it isn't uncommon at all. And using the mentality of "Well the ends justify the means when we do it but not for anybody else" doesn't sit well with me.

Is he Satan incarnate? Of course not. But the hollywood narrative of 100% good guys vs evil bastards just isn't the case in reality. Unfortunately, innocent people get caught up in these struggles just like the combatants themselves.

And as for your last inquiry, that is an equally complex issue.

[gigantes]

Mandela undoubtedly fought for his people and has impressive accomplishments.

But to bury the unsavory parts of the story is rather disgraceful. He was not an untouchable saint. There are those who were positively affected by him, and those who were affected in the worst possible way. In struggles like that, it isn't uncommon at all. And using the mentality of "Well the ends justify the means when we do it but not for anybody else" doesn't sit well with me.

Is he Satan incarnate? Of course not. But the hollywood narrative of 100% good guys vs evil bastards just isn't the case in reality. And unfortunately, innocent people get caught up in these struggles just like the combatants themselves.

And as for your last inquiry, that is an equally complex issue.

right... what a trail of victims, indeed. could we hear from their families in any way, shape or form one day?

bonus pts for veering all the way from machiavelli to hollywood cliches in order to find your reasonable 'middle ground'. in other news, you are free to kiss my ass after which i'm likely to piss upon your head.

problem...?

[BasedTom]

right... what a trail of victims, indeed. could we hear from their families in any way, shape or form one day?

bonus pts for veering all the way from machiavelli to hollywood cliches in order to find your reasonable 'middle ground'. in other news, you are free to kiss my ass after which i'm likely to piss upon your head.

problem...?

The only problem I have with your post is trying to understand it. Perhaps it is above my feeble comprehension, or maybe it is a flaw in how you chose to word it. Pissing on my head might be a fantasy of yours, but I fail to see how it relates at all to the topic of discussion.

If you were expecting a meltdown or an acknowledgement of defeat, especially with an absolutely worthless post like that, then I'm afraid you'll just have to try again.