Anybody know Kareem Abdul-Jabbar vs Walt Bellamy's career h2h stats?

[CavaliersFTW]

CavaliersFTW I got a question...

You mention that you have three Kareem-Bellamy games. I know Oct 18, 1969 (Kareem debut) and Oct 17, 1970 (Maravich debut). What is the third game? Do you have all the games in their entirety?

Amateur footage of an unknown date 1969-70 Bucks at Pistons game. Only a few clips, nothing big. But with the three sources I think it makes for a good potential h2h video and this is a great excuse for me to get some more Bellamy exposure out there, and yet another Jabbar/Alcindor video something my subscribers keep asking for.

The Kareem debut game I have in entirety, the Maravich debut game is 95% there, the first few minutes are missing and several points of the video have "technical difficulties" and are unwatchable but it's mostly complete. I also just ordered a (hopefully) higher quality version of the Suns vs Hawks Christmas game of 1970 so that will be another complete game of Bellamy and many other players that I'll break down in the future. I'm also trying to get my hands on a copy of a December game from 1967-68 season of the Knicks vs the Pistons but I've not yet heard back from the source who claims to have a copy.

[jongib369]

Cavs at it again, wasting his time making mixes of betas who wouldn't even make the league today.

[jongib369]

All seriousness, looking forward to seeing more of Bellamy..A poster I respect a lot said his offensive game reminds him of a "Primitive Patrick Ewing". Do you agree with that assertion on any level coniderng what you've seen?

[CavaliersFTW]

All seriousness, looking forward to seeing more of Bellamy..A poster I respect a lot said his offensive game reminds him of a "Primitive Patrick Ewing". Do you agree with that assertion on any level coniderng what you've seen?

La Frescobaldi said that right?

Right now I know less about Ewing's offensive habits than I do about Bellamy's. All I know is Bellamy liked to create offense by driving and finishing from up to 20 feet out with either hand 1 or 2 dribbles, and catch and shoot or dribble and pull up from that same distance out plus he was a good passer so he creates a legitimate triple threat from the wing which is not the case for guys like Kareem and Wilt but was the case for many of the other centers of that era that had to cope with the Wilt's, Russell's, and Jabbar's such as Zelmo Beatty or Willis Reed. The only difference with Bellamy is he's also strong enough and skilled enough to play deep on the offensive end and can and did dunk or finish with force over the top of guys like Wilt, Russell, or Jabbar so he was a defensive assignment that had to be respected inside and out. I have no idea how his mentality was throughout his career, but his talent on the offensive end looks good and it looks like he was working hard defensively (more about position and using his weight to box/force out rather than shot blocking) in the 3 h2h games I've got against Jabbar.

[jongib369]

La Frescobaldi said that right?

Right now I know less about Ewing's offensive habits than I do about Bellamy's. All I know is Bellamy liked to create offense by driving and finishing from up to 20 feet out with either hand 1 or 2 dribbles, and catch and shoot or dribble and pull up from that same distance out plus he was a good passer so he creates a legitimate triple threat from the wing which is not the case for guys like Kareem and Wilt but was the case for many of the other centers of that era that had to cope with the Wilt's, Russell's, and Jabbar's such as Zelmo Beatty or Willis Reed. The only difference with Bellamy is he's also strong enough and skilled enough to play deep on the offensive end and can and did dunk or finish with force over the top of guys like Wilt, Russell, or Jabbar so he was a defensive assignment that had to be respected inside and out. I have no idea how his mentality was throughout his career, but his talent on the offensive end looks good and it looks like he was working hard defensively (more about position and using his weight to box/force out rather than shot blocking) in the 3 h2h games I've got against Jabbar.

https://youtu.be/uz_uIq0bbp8

Here's a bit of Ewing VS Oneal. It's highlights of a game, but a good example nevertheless

Thanks for giving your observations though, look forward to seeing it. Hopefully you can get your hands on that Knicks/Pistons game. Idk if this would jeopardize your channel, but have you ever thought about starting up a kickstarter? Finding/getting footage is a bit easier wilt deeper pockets.

[Psileas]

Not to hijack this thread, but for those that are interested, bb-reference now has all 100 of the Wilt-Bellamy H2H's (just mainly the scoring though)...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=chambwi01

Again, you can go to nbastats.net and get much more info on their H2H's...


Oh, and same with Russell-Bellamy...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=russebi01

Russell with an insane team record of 61-10 vs Bellamy's teams.
Wilt isn't bad either, at 63-27 (55-21 in the 60's).

[LAZERUSS]

Russell with an insane team record of 61-10 vs Bellamy's teams.
Wilt isn't bad either, at 63-27 (55-21 in the 60's).

Interesting though, that Bellamy actually gave Russell's defense more problems than he did Wilt's. And, of course, Chamberlain just obliterated Bellamy on the offensive end.

[CavaliersFTW]

https://youtu.be/uz_uIq0bbp8

Here's a bit of Ewing VS Oneal. It's highlights of a game, but a good example nevertheless

Thanks for giving your observations though, look forward to seeing it. Hopefully you can get your hands on that Knicks/Pistons game. Idk if this would jeopardize your channel, but have you ever thought about starting up a kickstarter? Finding/getting footage is a bit easier wilt deeper pockets.

Just from watching that I can say this:

No jump hook to the middle option from Bellamy that I've seen in any NBA film so far. Bellamy and Ewing both look like they shoot face up from outside the same effectiveness and distance. Bellamy however mixes it up on some of those wing catches with more inclination to put the ball on the floor and drive inside to either pass or finish. Bellamy and Ewing can both hit a low post turnaround jumper as I've got a clip of Bellamy doing it against Unseld but Ewing does it several times vs O'Neal in that one game where as Bellamy doesn't even attempt one vs Jabbar - Ewings footwork on his turnound looks highly polished and I don't think Bellamy can create the same space Ewing does on his turnaround so that might be why Bellamy doesn't bother with one vs the towering Jabbar. Ewing takes a bigger step and fades further back. Bellamy, unlike Ewing in that footage, is in love with the pick and roll and pick and pop and he executes both very effectively. I'd say they both shoot face-up about on par but Ewing has an edge on Bellamy in low-post and mid-post isolation scoring where you just dump the ball in and expect something good to happen (that fadeaway and jump hook) but what Bellamy lacks there he seems to do a lot more damage on pick plays. They both pass well, and similarly.

*EDIT* Bellamy does attempt and make one fadeaway vs Jabbar I forgot about one in the unknown-date fan footage. He drop steps to the middle and hits it. But one example in 3 games is way less often than Ewing's 3 attempts vs Shaq in just 1 game.

[dankok8]

Interesting though, that Bellamy actually gave Russell's defense more problems than he did Wilt's. And, of course, Chamberlain just obliterated Bellamy on the offensive end.

Russell probably let Bellamy score in blowouts. For instance during 1961-1962 Boston went 9-1 against the Chicago Packers with a +13.5 point differential. There was tons of garbage time in there.

[CavaliersFTW]

Just found some more footage of Bellamy this time from his prime scoring years in Chicago and he did in fact have a jump hook to the middle. And I'm seeing more fadeaways from him. Damn. Bellamy has a remarkably well rounded scoring repertoire at this point there aren't a lot of post moves or finishes I haven't seen film of him doing.

[dankok8]

Just found some more footage of Bellamy this time from his prime scoring years in Chicago and he did in fact have a jump hook to the middle. And I'm seeing more fadeaways from him. Damn. Bellamy has a remarkably well rounded scoring repertoire at this point there aren't a lot of post moves or finishes I haven't seen film of him doing.

Wow you have Chicago Packers/Zephyrs footage? That's incredible!!

I can't wait for this mix.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Cavs, post a link to your channel.

[dankok8]

Anyways nbastats.net updated their archives and we have FG% for two more Bellamy games. These are the updated stats:


24 Head-to-Head Games (Regular Season)

Kareem: 27.0 ppg, 15.8 rpg, 4.0 apg on 56.0 %FG (23 games) and 70.2 %FT
Bellamy: 17.8 ppg, 12.9 rpg (21 games), 3.0 apg (21 games) on 50.7 %FG (19 games) and 62.2 %FT

[CavaliersFTW]

Cavs, post a link to your channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFf...7sVL7PzEg57E4g

There you go.

Also, update, the video is rendering now. Should be uploaded in the next few hours.

[CavaliersFTW]

Anyways nbastats.net updated their archives and we have FG% for two more Bellamy games. These are the updated stats:


24 Head-to-Head Games (Regular Season)

Kareem: 27.0 ppg, 15.8 rpg, 4.0 apg on 56.0 %FG (23 games) and 70.2 %FT
Bellamy: 17.8 ppg, 12.9 rpg (21 games), 3.0 apg (21 games) on 50.7 %FG (19 games) and 62.2 %FT

Great stuff, thanks again.