Peak MJ vs Peak Kobe one-on-one

[ClipperRevival]

I included Kobe's 2013 & 1999 season; I did not include Jordan's 1995 season. I also did not include Kobe's 2014 & 2015 seasons and his rookie/sophmore years; as I did not include Jordan's two seasons with Washington.

I get 3.3% & 1.1% respectively.
I did that on a spreadsheet.

But my analysis goes deeper than that.
I took the time to evaluate the 2P% average those years only for perimeter position players (SG, SF & PG). During the time Kobe played, the average 2P% was .455 and during Jordan's era it was .482. (substantial difference)

That idiot can only evaluate raw data because he's brain dead and has no clue what regression analysis is.

Also, the trend analysis I did gives me a clear indication of a steady decline in 2PT% from 1985 to 2009. In the last few years there was no trend as it keeps fluctuating.

The standard error was small telling me that when I ran the multiple regression analysis, there is indication of a CLEAR decline in 2PT%. A high SE would have told me that the variation could mean misrepresentation in data used. Again, basic statistical analysis.

I didn't use FG% because (for example) in 1985, there were like 400 3 point shots attempted, last year there were nearly 2000 3 point shots attempted.

So that would have skewed my data completely.

Like I said, you provided the raw data. And all that was required was simple addition/subtraction to comprehend the data. There was no need to run a regression analysis on an Excel spreadsheet with such simple data unless if you had a motive. And we all know what that motive is. To try to make Kobe as close to MJ as possible.

And you further twisted the numbers by not providing the RAW difference in FG pct but using the percentage difference, which further makes the difference appear smaller. And you further twisted the data by only including "perimeter" players. Like I said, if you want to waste further time with this, go ahead. But the bottom line is, I used YOUR data that you provided and calculated it at its simplest form.

I'm seriously done with this man.

[Mr Feeny]

I included Kobe's 2013 & 1999 season; I did not include Jordan's 1995 season. I also did not include Kobe's 2014 & 2015 seasons and his rookie/sophmore years; as I did not include Jordan's two seasons with Washington.

I get 3.3% & 1.1% respectively.
I did that on a spreadsheet.

But my analysis goes deeper than that.
I took the time to evaluate the 2P% average those years only for perimeter position players (SG, SF & PG). During the time Kobe played, the average 2P% was .455 and during Jordan's era it was .482. (substantial difference)

That idiot can only evaluate raw data because he's brain dead and has no clue what regression analysis is.

Also, the trend analysis I did gives me a clear indication of a steady decline in 2PT% from 1985 to 2009. In the last few years there was no trend as it keeps fluctuating.

The standard error was small telling me that when I ran the multiple regression analysis, there is indication of a CLEAR decline in 2PT%. A high SE would have told me that the variation could mean misrepresentation in data used. Again, basic statistical analysis.

I didn't use FG% because (for example) in 1985, there were like 400 3 point shots attempted, last year there were nearly 2000 3 point shots attempted.

So that would have skewed my data completely.

I got the same numbers he did. Did you fail elementary mathematics?

[West-Side]

Kobe

1999 0.457 0.494 0.037
2000 0.468 0.489 0.021
2001 0.461 0.489 0.028
2002 0.465 0.489 0.024
2003 0.463 0.465 0.002
2004 0.460 0.463 0.003
2005 0.470 0.472 0.002
2006 0.478 0.482 0.004
2007 0.485 0.497 0.012
2008 0.484 0.490 0.006
2009 0.485 0.496 0.011
2010 0.492 0.487 -0.005
2011 0.487 0.487 0.000
2012 0.477 0.464 -0.013
2013 0.488 0.510 0.022

Add the numbers bolded for you (total is 0.1540) now divide by the number of years sampled (15). I actually made a mistake and thought it was 14 years I sampled. So his average is 1.03% above the league, not 1.1% that I previously calculated.

Still no where near the 0.6% that the idiot calculated.

[ClipperRevival]

Kobe

1999 0.457 0.494 0.037
2000 0.468 0.489 0.021
2001 0.461 0.489 0.028
2002 0.465 0.489 0.024
2003 0.463 0.465 0.002
2004 0.460 0.463 0.003
2005 0.470 0.472 0.002
2006 0.478 0.482 0.004
2007 0.485 0.497 0.012
2008 0.484 0.490 0.006
2009 0.485 0.496 0.011
2010 0.492 0.487 -0.005
2011 0.487 0.487 0.000
2012 0.477 0.464 -0.013
2013 0.488 0.510 0.022

Add the numbers bolded for you (total is 0.1540) now divide by the number of years sampled (15). I actually made a mistake and thought it was 14 years I sampled. So his average is 1.03% above the league, not 1.1% that I previously calculated.

Still no where near the 0.6% that the idiot calculated.

You didn't provide Kobe's 1999 numbers and the 2013 league numbers in your original post. So those weren't in my calculations. And like I said, I used YOUR data. You don't even know your own numbers dumbass.

[Mr Feeny]

You didn't provide Kobe's 1999 numbers and the 2013 league numbers in your original post. So those weren't in my calculations. And like I said, I used YOUR data. You don't even know your own numbers dumbass.

Zip that body bag

[West-Side]

Hey moron.

The reason why MJ's shooting pct dipped from 1996 - 1998 was because he had taken 2 years off and came back at 33-35.

And the reason why FG pct was higher for guards in MJ's days was because the league shot significantly less 3 pointers.

Love how you dumb fu*ks who probably don't even play the game try to sound intelligent with these misleading stats.

Carry on dumb Kobe fan.

What this moron said initially.
He didn't even have a clue about what numbers I posted. Trying to reason with me about 3 point shooting.

Why would I expect him to understand anything further?

Bottom line, 2PT% was significantly less for perimeter players when comparing the time Kobe played (in his prime) and when Jordan played (in his prime).

You adjust those numbers accordingly and you'll see that their 2PT% is actually a lot closer. Not to mention Kobe was a far more lethal 3 point shooter throughout his career.

Jordan - .327 (1778 attempts)
Kobe - .334 (5079 attempts

And slightly better at the line.

Jordan - .835
Kobe - .837

Adjusted 2PT%

Jordan - .520 (league average at .482)
Kobe - .486 (league average at .455)

Kobe was 3.1% above league average
Jordan was 3.8% above league average



Rest in peace jackass.

[kshutts1]

1) I also got 1.1% for Kobe, so I'm really curious as to how Clippers got .6%.

2) Kobe is a significantly better 3p shooter, but your comparison didn't show that. Jordan's 3p percentage is inflated due to close 3p line for two seasons. Take out those two years and it's around 29% (I did that before to prove a point).

3) Can you cite the sources for your 2p% and league average 2p%? Just makes it look more legit.

4) I wonder what Jordan's and Kobe's PPS, relative to league average, would be.

[West-Side]

1) I also got 1.1% for Kobe, so I'm really curious as to how Clippers got .6%.

2) Kobe is a significantly better 3p shooter, but your comparison didn't show that. Jordan's 3p percentage is inflated due to close 3p line for two seasons. Take out those two years and it's around 29% (I did that before to prove a point).

3) Can you cite the sources for your 2p% and league average 2p%? Just makes it look more legit.

4) I wonder what Jordan's and Kobe's PPS, relative to league average, would be.

1) It's my fault, in my previous post I did not include Kobe's 1999 and 2013 season, so he calculated .6% based on the numbers I posted.

2) Yes and Kobe also took way more 3 point shots and still has a higher 3PT%. Kobe's range was far superior to Jordan's. The man could take fade away 3's and nail it. Just look at his game against Portland from back in the day. The man tied the game with a fade away 3 as time was running out. And as you said, Jordan had the benefit of taking 3's from a shorter distance for 2 seasons. There really is no question on who was a better long range shooter between the two.

3) I used basketball reference to get the 2PT%. I took the NBA average per season from the website and than took the time to exclude all the PF's and C's from the calculation. I essentially used this approach.

a) Take all the perimeter players; (FGM - 3PM) / (FGA - 3PA).
I used excel to process this data and it did take me a while. However, I imported the data into excel and simply embedded that formula by cell referencing.

I sorted all the players by position and deleted C/PF's. I than deleted all the irrelevant stats and left FGM, FGA, 3PTM, 3PTA.

The reason I did this is because I couldn't just take their 2PT% and divide by the # of players because it wouldn't give me a weighted average number. So I had to do it the accurate way.

So for instance:

Kobe: 500 for 1000 overall, 45 for 150 from 3.
In excel I would do the following: (500-45) / (1000-150) --> 455 / 850.
This gave me his 2PT% only.

However using excel it's all automated so once I only had PG, SG & SF's on my spreadsheet, I simply cell referenced the formula and calculated every player's 2PT%.

I summed up all the FGA, FGM, 3PM & 3PTA at the bottom and it gave me the weighted average 2PT% for that specific season.

I than added all the TOTALS for each season to give me an idea of how different the 2PT% was for perimeter players only.

As I've said it isn't 100% accurate because there are bigs like Dirk or Rasheed Wallace or Sabonis or Webber or Vlade Divac or Garnett etc. who could be considered perimeter players because they do have a mid-range game, so keep that in mind.

4) That's very easy to do; maybe I'll do that for you in a bit, sounds fair?

[f0und]

jordan just has too many advantages in categories overall. some are minor advantages and some are obvious. kobe has just a few advantages and they're marginal at best. add it all up and its jordan in a landslide.

[West-Side]

Unreal, just wasted nearly 50 minutes of my time creating a post that outlines Jordan & Kobe's PPS compared to league average and the ****ing website froze on me and I lost all that work.



I'll re-do it in a bit, pissed right off.
Jordan shot 10% above league average from 1985-1993 & 1996-1998.

I'll re-do everything again soon.

[jstern]

Jordan had the benefit of a shorter 3 point line for two season and 17 games. And Kobe had the benefit of having the shorter 3 point line for one season.

Jordan also used to shoot bail out 3 point shots early in his career, and like most players, say Larry Bird, he had a better percentage when he shot it more, due too rythym. The one season Jordan decided to make the 3 pointer a part of his game, in 89-90 he shot it better than all but one of Kobe's 20 season, not including the season Kobe played with the short line. Which tells you a lot about what Jordan's ability would be if he made it part of his game.

Also I've seen Jordan make around 3 fade away 3 pointers to beat the clock, and they all went in. You guys talk as if Kobe is Ray Allen, and all he does is shoot fade away 3s.

[West-Side]

Jordan had the benefit of a shorter 3 point line for two season and 17 games. And Kobe had the benefit of having the shorter 3 point line for one season.

Jordan also used to shoot bail out 3 point shots early in his career, and like most players, say Larry Bird, he had a better percentage when he shot it more, due too rythym. The one season Jordan decided to make the 3 pointer a part of his game, in 89-90 he shot it better than all but one of Kobe's 20 season, not including the season Kobe played with the short line. Which tells you a lot about what Jordan's ability would be if he made it part of his game.

Also I've seen Jordan make around 3 fade away 3 pointers to beat the clock, and they all went in. You guys talk as if Kobe is Ray Allen, and all he does is shoot fade away 3s.

Kobe has a higher 3PT% while having over 3,500 more attempts for his career. Jordan fan boys are pathetic.

Kobe has taken many ill advised 3 point shots; sometimes he'd take a 35+ foot 3 point shot just because he's hot. His decision making aren't his strength that's for sure; but he still shot better than Jordan from the 3 point line.






Two crazy 3's Versus Portland

Vs Toronto

Left handed 3 point shot

[West-Side]

Michael Jordan

1985
Jordan - 2313 on 1625 - 1.423 PPS
League - 9089 on 7268 - 1.244 PPS

1986
Jordan - 408 on 328 - 1.244
League - 9038 on 7268 - 1.244

1987
Jordan - 3041 on 2279 - 1.334
League - 9015 on 7281 - 1.238

1988
Jordan - 2868 on 1998 - 1.435
League - 8869 on 7193 - 1.233

1989
Jordan - 2633 on 1795 - 1.467
League - 8952 on 7295 - 1.227

1990
Jordan - 2753 on 1964 - 1.402
League - 8773 on 7146 - 1.228

1991
Jordan - 2580 on 1837 - 1.404
League - 8717 on 7150 - 1.219

1992
Jordan - 2404 on 1818 - 1.322
League - 8635 on 7163 - 1.206

1993
Jordan - 2541 on 2003 - 1.269
League - 8632 on 7048 - 1.225

1996
Jordan - 2491 on 1850 - 1.346
League - 8159 on 6575 - 1.241

1997
Jordan - 2431 on 1892 - 1.285
League - 7946 on 6503 - 1.222

1998
Jordan - 2357 on 1893 - 1.245
League - 7837 on 6536 - 1.245

Overall
Jordan - 28,820 points on 21,282 shots - 1.354 PPS
League - 103,662 points on 84,464 shots - 1.227 PPS

Jordan shot 10.34% higher than league average.

Kobe Bryant

1999
Kobe - 996 on 779 - 1.279
League - 4579 on 3910 - 1.171

2000
Kobe - 1485 on 1183 - 1.255
League - 7993 on 6732 - 1.187

2001
Kobe - 1938 on 1510 - 1.283
League - 7774 on 6609 - 1.176

2002
Kobe - 2019 on 1597 - 1.264
League - 7829 on 6664 - 1.175

2003
Kobe - 2461 on 1924 - 1.279
League - 7797 on 6624 - 1.177

2004
Kobe - 1557 on 1178 - 1.322
League - 7659 on 6545 - 1.170

2005
Kobe - 1819 on 1324 - 1.374
League - 7970 on 6588 - 1.210

2006
Kobe - 2832 on 2173 - 1.303
League - 7955 on 6477 - 1.228

2007
Kobe - 2430 on 1757 - 1.383
League - 8097 on 6536 - 1.239

2008
Kobe - 2323 on 1690 - 1.375
League - 8194 on 6683 - 1.226

2009
Kobe - 2201 on 1712 - 1.286
League - 8196 on 6635 - 1.235

2010
Kobe - 1970 on 1569 - 1.256
League - 8237 on 6700 - 1.229

2011
Kobe - 2078 on 1639 - 1.268
League - 8163 on 6660 - 1.226

2012
Kobe - 1616 on 1336 - 1.210
League - 6353 on 5374 - 1.182

2013
Kobe - 2133 on 1595 - 1.337
League - 8041 on 6720 - 1.197

Overall
Kobe - 29,858 points on 22,966 shots - 1.300 PPS
League - 114,837 points on 95,457 shots - 1.203 PPS

Kobe shot 8.07% higher than the league average.

Perimeter Players
For the same exact time frame:

Jordan era: 74,637 points on 62,503 shots - 1.194 PPS
Kobe era: 87,276 points on 76,366 shots - 1.143 PPS

Jordan shot 13.41& higher than perimeter players.
Kobe shot 13.76% higher than perimeter players.

[West-Side]

Kobe has always shot above league average; Jordan did not in 1998 (he tied the league average) and 1986 (tied again).
In 1986 he did get injured though.

[West-Side]

Jordan - .327 (1778 attempts)
Kobe - .334 (5079 attempts)

And slightly better at the line.

Jordan - .835
Kobe - .837

Adjusted 2PT%

Jordan - .520 (league average at .482)
Kobe - .486 (league average at .455)

Kobe was 3.1% above league average
Jordan was 3.8% above league average

Jordan - 1.354 PPS (league average at 1.194 PPS)
Kobe - 1.300 PPS (league average at 1.143 PPS)

Jordan shot 13.41% above league average (or .160 PPS higher)
Kobe shot 13.76%% above league average (or .157 PPS higher)

Just a brief summary of my work.