BREAKING: Cavs officially sign Andrew Wiggins

[04mzwach]

The news that they're going to make a deal will hit before they actually make it probably with an entire 30 days to leak the info.

[DMAVS41]

What is it about love that cavs(GM Lebron)are so desperately trying to trade for him?

Apart from spreading the floor and some rebounding, he adds further problems to the lack of defense this team has.

Cavs do not need his scoring...I just don't see why they would risk their future assets over an guy who provides little improvement on what they have now, particularly from a defensive standpoint.

He's the perfect PF next to Lebron in a vacuum though...and he's one of a few players in the league that actually have more value than the max contract.

So I get why...what I don't get is why they'd be willing to give up Wiggins and all that other stuff. That makes no sense to me...and I'm very skeptical that it's accurate...so I'll believe when I see it.

It would literally be, by far, 5 times better than any deal a team losing it's superstar ever got.

****ing shaq went for Odom, Butler, Grant, and a pick iirc.

I mean...I know love is younger, but damn...

[FireMcFailPlease]

He's the perfect PF next to Lebron in a vacuum though...and he's one of a few players in the league that actually have more value than the max contract.

So I get why...what I don't get is why they'd be willing to give up Wiggins and all that other stuff. That makes no sense to me...and I'm very skeptical that it's accurate...so I'll believe when I see it.

It would literally be, by far, 5 times better than any deal a team losing it's superstar ever got.

****ing shaq went for Odom, Butler, Grant, and a pick iirc.

I mean...I know love is younger, but damn...

this is such a delicate situation with Lebron being the GM(IMO)

[GimmeThat]

I think the Cavs fan should at least wear his jersey to the game to show some support.

and this is nothing against Lebron.

[fpliii]

What is it about love that cavs(GM Lebron)are so desperately trying to trade for him?

Apart from spreading the floor and some rebounding, he adds further problems to the lack of defense this team has.

Cavs do not need his scoring...I just don't see why they would risk their future assets over an guy who provides little improvement on what they have now, particularly from a defensive standpoint.

Floor spacing is a huge, huge deal in today's league.

[Hotbullets]

I think LeBron + Love is a perfect combination. Love is like a better version of Bosh (although less efficient defensively) and we all know that worked out pretty well.

I'd take Love over unproven potential anyday. Bron has to go for championships NOW. Wiggins will need too much time to develop. I might be wrong though, but that's just my two cents.

[Kblaze8855]

Concept? The concept of coming up with a terrible strategy?

Could you please explain the upside of keeping Afflalo long term and paying him 4 years 44 million after this coming season for the Magic?

Here were the scenarios;

1. Trade him at his peak value last year around December and get back an expiring deal, a young asset, and a first round pick...while allowing the team to lose a few more games and potentially help draft position

2. Wait to trade him in the off-season when his value will be considerably lower...fournier and the 56th pick

3. Keep Afflalo this year and then either pay him at least 10 million a year or let him walk for nothing

You were absolutely against option 1.

So could you please explain to me how options 2 and 3 are better?

By all means...please tell me how Afflalo fits in long term with the team that has Oladipo and Payton...and is rebuilding.

Speaking the same language? Of course we aren't...you still think you were right with Afflalo. So I don't know what is going on here. Either you are too immature to admit you were dead wrong...or you really are so inept in team management that you can't see the obvious fact that how the Magic handled the Afflalo situation was terrible.

I don't know you to be that ignorant...so I'll assume you just can't admit you were wrong.

But...I am totally at a loss that one that knows the game like you could possibly think a long term 10 million dollar plus deal with Afflalo would make sense for this Magic team. Like...really? You think that makes sense?

These are the "details" you say don't matter, but oh...they do. You make mistake after mistake, like the Pelicans have, for example, and they add up. The details matter...it can make all the difference. I'm surprised one would even argue so much against that position...

It's gotten to the point on here that a poster looks at the following;

1. Young asset, expiring contract, and first round pick...less wins for potentially better draft pick
2. Fournier and 56th pick...added wins for worse draft pick

And they actually are so entrenched in their position...they can't admit that option 1 is way better. It's crazy...

And now you have returned to your usual tactic of making up a claim then asking me if it "Really" makes sense as if trying to confirm I believe something I never said(Similar to when you asked me if Paul is "really" way better than Jason Kidd). I never said to pay him 10-15 million a year.

I read that topic last night. My point then as now....is that you dont just give away all your decent players to tank because the 27 or whatever wins they were on pace for might be too many. Turns out they won 23...and 33 would have won the lottery.

They could have easily gone even further in the wrong direction(from your point of view) won the lottery and be well ahead.

You again..talking about some hypothetical player and a late draft pick when some teams strategy is to avoid non high first rounders just to keep the cap space.

Not being in their offices I can tell you the plan. What I can tell you for sure...is we cant tell if it worked 5 months after we discussed it. This moment to moment judgement of team building is one reason I doubt we would ever see eye to eye on it.

It isnt a few weeks or a few months. Its literally...years.

Everyone has been wrong hundreds of times. I have no idea if the Magic are until I at least...see the player they got out of it play an NBA game. See if they went the way they have for cap space for a specific target possibly disrupted by an extra guaranteed contract. Possibly one they decided fit better than AA in the last several months.

They passed on Exum...someone many GMs felt was a star...for who they have. How am I to judge their team building without seeing how it worked out?

Its a marathon.

[DukeDelonte13]

in the world of cavs reporting things have been flipped upside since grant has left.

[Phantom84]

[QUOTE=DukeDelonte13]in the world of cavs reporting things have been flipped upside since grant has left.

[DMAVS41]

Again...here were the options;

1. Trade him last december for expiring contract, asset, first rounder

2. Trade him as a potential 1 year rental for Fournier and the 56th pick.

3. Keep him through this coming season and either pay him 10 plus million to stay or let him walk for nothing.

You hated option 1. Please tell me how option 2 or 3 are better.

Would you pay Afflalo 10 plus million a season to stay on the Magic? Please answer?

Is Fournier and a first rounder better than Fournier and the 56th pick? Please answer.

Is getting a first round pick and a young player better than getting nothing back? Please answer.


You keep debating this on some broad level. Which makes no ****ing sense at all. This was a specific situation.

So I'm still waiting for one thing of substance from you on why keeping him long term makes sense...and it is just priceless that you say they should keep him, but not pay him. Just hilarious...

Also, could you explain to me how the lottery works. You realize that the only picks that are determined by "luck"...is the top 3...right? The rest goes in order. So when a team jumps into the top 3 that didn't finish in the top 3 (like the Cavs did)...and 2 and 3 finish with the 2nd and 3rd worst teams....the rest go in inverse order of the teams regular season record.

So in this draft, you saw the Cavs jump up..which is the luck part. You saw the then everything else goes in order.

But the draft stuff isn't really the point. I'm asking you the positive of keeping Afflalo. You keep saying..."luck", but what is the upside of keeping Afflalo? If you could give me an argument why keeping Afflalo and hurting his trade value and giving yourself worse odds in the lottery is smart...I'm all ears. In some cases there would be upside with a vet player like that, but I haven't seen one argument put forth by you yet about it. Please tell me the upside I'm missing.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

The more i think about this the more i think that the cavs need to get this trade done...it's a good move

DMAVS brings up that they don't have to trade for Love and that they could go after somebody else...but who?....which player remotely as good as Kevin Love is available to be traded for and (according to reports) willing to come to Cleveland?

Offensively, there are maybe like 2 players in the league (if that) who fit better with lbj than kevin love....and cleveland has 0 shot of getting either of them...

say 4 years from now wiggins is paul george and bennett is paul milsap...is a Irving/George/old Lebron/Milsapp combo better than a Irving/(Martin/Waiters/Miller)/prime lbj/prime love team? honestly, i'd say no...

[DMAVS41]

The more i think about this the more i think that the cavs need to get this trade done...it's a good move

DMAVS says that they don't have to trade for Love and that they could go after somebody else...but who?....which player remotely as good as Kevin Love is available to be traded for and (according to reports) willing to come to Cleveland?

Offensively, there are maybe like 2 players in the league (if that) who fit better with lbj than kevin love....and cleveland has 0 shot of getting either of them...

say 4 years from now wiggins is paul george and bennett is paul milsap...is a Irving/George/old Lebron/Milsapp combo better than a Irving/(Martin/Waiters/Miller)/prime lbj/prime love team? honestly, i'd say no...

I said they don't have to gut their team of;

Wiggins/Bennett/Haywood's contract/3 first round picks/6 million in cap filler...while taking back Martin and facilitating the move of Barea

That is my point.

I'm actually in favor of a Wiggins for Love trade...just not one that kills you like the above.

Have you thought about that team defensively much?

It would be really really bad defensively...especially in the playoffs. That team would be great in the regular season...and then likely flame out in the playoffs.

What would I do if that really would be the cost of Love...which I'm skeptical of hugely by the way as that would be far the best deal a team has ever gotten in a situation like this?

Well, I'd start inquiring about making small moves. The biggest need on this Cavs team is rim protection/center play. First thing I do is go talk to the Bucks about Larry Sanders and Middelton. Two guys that fit in so well.

The problem I have with overpaying so grossly for Love...is that he doesn't address the biggest weakness on the team right now and going forward. And you have a 20 year old stretch 4 that has 3 point range and you just have no idea how good he is. Why not just make a small move now and see what you have.

If you are going to basically forgo this season as a title winning year. Why not make a small move and see what you have? Also...you wouldn't even have to give up the whole year...they could make a move at the deadline if need be.

Not like Wiggins is going to be worthless or something in a few months.

They have Andy's expiring contract and Thompson will likely opt out...and they have the Haywood contract that allows them to make any trade.

To give up all that...for only love in this situation is just bad team management when other options are out there.

And something a lot of people are seemingly ignoring is....Thompson is going to be up after this season. Waiters the following season. Is the plan to keep those guys? Is there going to be pressure from Lebron/Rich Paul to bring back Thompson at like 10 million a season? These are the kinds of things that really matter. Because if they are going to be bring back Thompson for sure and a lot of people around the team seem to be indicating that the off court relationships might dictate that...then how does that work long term? Love and Thompson...with what at center? Where is the space coming to pay Martin, Thompson, Love...then Waiters...then max out Lebron...and get good enough at center and on defense.

Irving, Waiters, Miller, Allen, Love, Thompson...all these guys are minus or average defenders. This team would be hugely reliant on old Andy and aging Lebron to get stops.

Irving doesn't even fit that well next to Lebron. He's not a great spot up shooter. He likes the ball in his hands a lot...and he's a crap defender. Would the best thing be to play Lebron at the 4 and have him post up a lot more...so Irving gets to play more his style? Perhaps...

The big issue with Love/Irving is that you can't go small like the Heat could. The Heat could put Bosh at the 5 and go small and still play elite defense. If the Cavs go small and play Love at center....their defense will be terrible...so they couldn't consistently do that.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I said they don't have to gut their team of;

Wiggins/Bennett/Haywood's contract/3 first round picks/6 million in cap filler...while taking back Martin and facilitating the move of Barea

That is my point.

I'm actually in favor of a Wiggins for Love trade...just not one that kills you like the above.

Have you thought about that team defensively much?

It would be really really bad defensively...especially in the playoffs. That team would be great in the regular season...and then likely flame out in the playoffs.

What would I do if that really would be the cost of Love...which I'm skeptical of hugely by the way as that would be far the best deal a team has ever gotten in a situation like this?

Well, I'd start inquiring about making small moves. The biggest need on this Cavs team is rim protection/center play. First thing I do is go talk to the Bucks about Larry Sanders and Middelton. Two guys that fit in so well.

The problem I have with overpaying so grossly for Love...is that he doesn't address the biggest weakness on the team right now and going forward. And you have a 20 year old stretch 4 that has 3 point range and you just have no idea how good he is. Why not just make a small move now and see what you have.

If you are going to basically forgo this season as a title winning year. Why not make a small move and see what you have? Also...you wouldn't even have to give up the whole year...they could make a move at the deadline if need be.

Not like Wiggins is going to be worthless or something in a few months.

They have Andy's expiring contract and Thompson will likely opt out...and they have the Haywood contract that allows them to make any trade.

To give up all that...for only love in this situation is just bad team management when other options are out there.

i dont think the cavs can trade 3 1st rounders...pretty sure i read somewhere that they gotta keep 1 of em...and im assuming the deal is something like wiggins/bennett/1or2 1sts for Love/Martin

From what i've heard Larry Sanders is not available (i do love him as a player though) and who is to say he wants to be in Cleveland??

As far as that team being awful defensively - I don't agree necessarily...varejao is a pretty good defensive player as is LeBron and Honestly Kevin Love is not carlos boozer (love actually grades out pretty neutral in terms of Drapm)...he's a great defenive rebounder which helps...guard defense could be an issue with kyrie/waiters/martin/miller/allen all bad defenders but how hard would it be to make a move for a role playing defensive wing?...could sign someone like ronnie brewer for vet min..see if you can get marion for a pay cut or make a move for an iman shumpert type...it's doable...there have been rosters with worse defensive players that have been pretty good defensive teams..

[Optimus Prime]

Great...another 30 days of endless speculation and ESPN headlines like "Source: Cavs still front-runners for Love".

Love is a star now. Wiggins might be someday, but not for a few years. LeBron is turning 30, so the priority is to win rings while LeBron is still in his prime. Trading for Love makes them into the definitive power in the East for the forseeable future and one of the best teams in the league. If you're Cleveland, you should be willing to part with Wiggins for Love as long as you get some other pieces in return and don't gut your roster with something silly like Wiggins/Waiters/Bennett + picks for Love/Martin/JJ.

Love/Martin/Dieng for Wiggins/Waiters or Bennet/picks/salary filler is a very fair trade. Yes, it's more than stars who want out have fetched in the past. But you just got LeBron back, so you do whatever is necessary to try and surround him with the best chance to win championships. And that is by trading for Kevin Love.

I hope the trade happens ASAP. All the rumors and speculation have been ridiculous up to now. Imagine if this drags on into the regular season and up to the trade deadline.

[DMAVS41]

i dont think the cavs can trade 3 1st rounders...pretty sure i read somewhere that they gotta keep 1 of em...and im assuming the deal is something like wiggins/bennett/1or2 1sts for Love/Martin

From what i've heard Larry Sanders is not available (i do love him as a player though) and who is to say he wants to be in Cleveland??

As far as that team being awful defensively - I don't agree necessarily...varejao is a pretty good defensive player as is LeBron and Honestly Kevin Love is not carlos boozer (love actually grades out pretty neutral in terms of Drapm)...he's a great defenive rebounder which helps...guard defense could be an issue with kyrie/waiters/martin/miller/allen all bad defenders but how hard would it be to make a move for a role playing defensive wing?...could sign someone like ronnie brewer for vet min..see if you can get marion for a pay cut or make a move for an iman shumpert type...it's doable...there have been rosters with worse defensive players that have been pretty good defensive teams..

I think the Cavs can trade all 3 if one of them goes to a 3rd team that takes on Barea as reported, but I'm not sure.

Who cares about Sanders wanting to be on the Cavs? He's locked into a 4 year 44 million dollar deal that could be a ****ing steal with cap increases and in the right situation.

If Andy is fully healthy (unlikely) and Lebron goes all out...that team could get by defensively...maybe. But based on last year...I just don't think Lebron really wants to push his energy on defense as often as he used to.

Good defensive bigs are hard to come by.

I just wait and see what I actually have if the cost is this high. This team is going to badly need a do it all guard/wing defender...Wiggins. And badly need stretch shooting out of the forward position...Bennett.

My guess is that Waiters and a pick and cap relief could net a good center. I'd rather try that first...then evaluate what I've got...because damn...Andy is hurt a lot...and he's old now. That is a lot to put on him to make a team work. And the money to really address that need going forward is not there as much as everyone thinks it is...and all the assets to make trades are gone as well.