will haters finally appreciate kobe when he comes back and averages 27/5/5

[fpliii]

and if you're just talking primes.. then whatever. thats opinion. but that isnt a basis for all time rankings or else tracy mcgrady would be a top 5 player all time


got it?

False. TMac isn't close to a top 5 prime all-time, and Kobe's prime is better (top 10-15 at the worst, and it lasted for a damned long time). There have just been a handful of guys who are better.

[Guy Ledouche]

Kobe will finally be appreciated when all of his irrational zealous fanatical fans go away.

[Unbiased_one]

jordan has a case over kobe though


lebron doesnt


?

Both of these statements are absurd. Kobe literally has no argument over Jordan whatsoever. At all.

And LeBron has a pretty strong case over kobe right now. I'm not sure I would go for it at the minute, but he will surpass him in just about everyone's books soon.

Kobe is a great fringe top 10 GOAT player, and I think we were all lucky to see him play. But that's it.

[kennethgriffin]

False. TMac isn't close to a top 5 prime all-time, and Kobe's prime is better (top 10-15 at the worst, and it lasted for a damned long time). There have just been a handful of guys who are better.

meant to say peak

cause people on ISH seem to rank shaq, lebron and a few others all time with their peak play and not overall careers


i was just pointing out that peak tmac was almost as good as peak kobe or peak jordan

but he fell off after that and his career overall sucks.. its about accomplishments+peak+prime+skill+longevity

everything counts

or else tmac would be a top 5 player ever just based on his level of skill from

2002-03, 2003-04

averaging a combined 30.2ppg, 6.3reb, 5.5ast

and his prime from 2000-01 to 2006-07 he averaged 27ppg, 6reb, 5ast

he had umlimited range, had all the moves in the book. was 6-9, 6-10 while doing it

kobe said he was by far the toughest player he ever played against



so its not about peaks.. tmac sucks.. but his peak was legendary

[fpliii]

meant to say peak

cause people on ISH seem to rank shaq, lebron and a few others all time with their peak play and not overall careers


i was just pointing out that peak tmac was almost as good as peak kobe or peak jordan

but he fell off after that and his career overall sucks.. its about accomplishments+peak+prime+skill+longevity

everything counts

or else tmac would be a top 5 player ever just based on his level of skill from

2002-03, 2003-04

averaging a combined 30.2ppg, 6.3reb, 5.5ast

and from 2000-01 to 2006-07 he averaged 27ppg, 6reb, 5ast

1) I don't think he was, though. When he was on he looked unstoppable, but he wasn't in their class IMO.

2) That's not a top 10 peak. It's not just about PPG/RPG/APG, and there are at least have a dozen centers above him.

[kennethgriffin]

Both of these statements are absurd. Kobe literally has no argument over Jordan whatsoever. At all.

And LeBron has a pretty strong case over kobe right now. I'm not sure I would go for it at the minute, but he will surpass him in just about everyone's books soon.

Kobe is a great fringe top 10 GOAT player, and I think we were all lucky to see him play. But that's it.

lol@ this statement... ofcourse he does. it depends on what you value more

- winning with no other hall of famer ( kobe did it twice, jordan never did )
- winning as his teams leader in ppg and apg ( kobe did it twice. jordan never did )
- going to more nba finals ( only 1 less title )
- scoring more points ( will pass him this season )
- having more 1st team all nba's
- having more 1st team all defense's
- having more consecutive allstar games
- having more 60 point games
- having more consecutive 50 point games
- having a higher single game record ( 81 points )
- dropping thousands of more 3pt shots ( having way more range )
- becoming the all time leader in non PG assists ( will happen this season )
- becoming the all time leader in playoff scoring ( will happen within 2 years )
- becoming the all time single game 3pt record holder ( 12 )


jordan has more ppg and mvps .. but if kobe keeps nailing a sh*t ton of slightly less colorful achievements. he could be looked at as GOAT by some

then what if he wins 1 more title ontop of it.

hes far from finished. 4-5 more years atleast

never know

[KyleKong]

lol@ this statement... ofcourse he does. it depends on what you value more

Considering all Kobe Stans have to defend LeBron being better is, "5 > 2", than by their logic, "6 > 5".

[CanYouDigIt]

Considering all Kobe Stans have to defend LeBron being better is, "5 > 2", than by their logic, "6 > 5".

/thread

[kennethgriffin]

1) I don't think he was, though. When he was on he looked unstoppable, but he wasn't in their class IMO.

2) That's not a top 10 peak. It's not just about PPG/RPG/APG, and there are at least have a dozen centers above him.

well thats if all you value is overall efficiency and heavily favor rebounding

i give bonus points to guys who dominate with less physical advantages

big difference between most dominant and best

shaq might be most dominant. but is he really the best basketball player? he cant even hit a free throw or dribble between his legs.

the best to me means: most skilled/all around/fundamentally sound/2 way offense/defense + records/achivements/longevity/peak/prime

which is why i only think of kareem most of the time as the one big man that could realistically challenge jordan for goat.. cause he had the skills and dominance

he could hit free throws... make jumpers.. defend, rebound. had longevity, records, a great peak..

hes the ultimate big man. not shaq or wilt

and if hakeem had 2 more rings i'd put him way ahead of shaq and wilt also

[kennethgriffin]

Considering all Kobe Stans have to defend LeBron being better is, "5 > 2", than by their logic, "6 > 5".

if lebron had 1 less ring and a never ending list of other things he had over kobe.. he'd have an argument

but kobe needs about 20 major achievements over mikes head just to make up for 1 less ring ... and people still laugh at kobes chances


so for a guy like lebron whos 3 behind kobe... he would need about 60 major achievements over kobes head just to get laughed at too



one things for certain.... kobes way closer to MJ than lebron is to kobe

[DaSeba5]

Everyone with an understanding of basketball, a brain, and actually watches basketball will respect Kobe's game. It's his fans that people troll, which is why they bash Kobe (not all, but most). Same with LeBron. I don't think people really hate LeBron himself; it's his fans that people hate on here.

[stanlove1111]

... and claims his 2,721,542,952nd first team all nba in his 2,721,542,960th season

becoming the first nba player in history to recover 100% from a completely torn career ending achillies tendon injury at a time when 90% of legends had already retired and become overweight couch potato's




seriously at what time do we say "ya hes a jerk.. but my god" ( bows down )




he's been an allstar since i was in grade 8



i'm turning 30 years old in like 6 months

Are there any basketball boards where people are not obsessed with stats? You know where they actually understand basketball..

Of course Kobe is going to average a lot of points this year. He is going to be in that role A ton of players in the league would average a lot if they were in Kobe's role. And seeing how Kobe's only goal in life is to break Jabbar's record there is no doubt he is going to chuck no matter how it effects his team.


Why do you clowns judge players on anything but value to a team. IF Kobe this year is the main man that wins more games then you think they should with the talent around him then he had a good year that deserves respect. IF he puts up 30 a game and his team underachieves then the 30 a game is nothing but empty stats that deserve no respect. This is what he was last year..

Why is this hard to understand?

[ralph_i_el]

more people hate Kobe stans than Kobe himself. If you all shut up about him we'd be able to enjoy what we get from him on the court (which is not going to be 27/5/5).

If you let Joe Johnson shoot as much as kobe he'd still be averaging 25 a game

[Unbiased_one]

well thats if all you value is overall efficiency and heavily favor rebounding

i give bonus points to guys who dominate with less physical advantages

big difference between most dominant and best

shaq might be most dominant. but is he really the best basketball player? he cant even hit a free throw or dribble between his legs.

the best to me means: most skilled/all around/fundamentally sound/2 way offense/defense + records/achivements/longevity/peak/prime

which is why i only think of kareem most of the time as the one big man that could realistically challenge jordan for goat.. cause he had the skills and dominance

he could hit free throws... make jumpers.. defend, rebound. had longevity, records, a great peak..

hes the ultimate big man. not shaq or wilt

and if hakeem had 2 more rings i'd put him way ahead of shaq and wilt also

I find it difficult to believe that you seriously believe kobe was better than Jordan when they played a very similar role/position and Jordan was better at virtually every single facet of that role. Kobe is arguably a better 3 point shooter and that really is just about it. Jordan is a pretty clear no 2 on my GOAT list so this is not really a knock on kobe at all...he's a great player but he's not in the conversation for top 5 all time in any way.

[KG215]

lol@ this statement... ofcourse he does. it depends on what you value more

- winning with no other hall of famer ( kobe did it twice, jordan never did )
- winning as his teams leader in ppg and apg ( kobe did it twice. jordan never did )
- going to more nba finals ( only 1 less title )
- scoring more points ( will pass him this season )
- having more 1st team all nba's
- having more 1st team all defense's
- having more consecutive allstar games
- having more 60 point games
- having more consecutive 50 point games
- having a higher single game record ( 81 points )
- dropping thousands of more 3pt shots ( having way more range )
- becoming the all time leader in non PG assists ( will happen this season )
- becoming the all time leader in playoff scoring ( will happen within 2 years )
- becoming the all time single game 3pt record holder ( 12 )

Almost all of those are highly subjective when it comes to determining if someone is better than someone else. Not to mention, you could pretty much cherry-pick different things (stats, accolades, etc.) and make a list just like that for Jordan.

I have no idea why you think this type of bullshit is a legitimate way to make your argument.