Kyrie, Wade and Pippen's stats during successful championship runs

[Terahite]

3ball is actually correct on this point

but by age 36 lebron will still surpass jordan

[3ball]

Is your argument that he NEVER had a second option like that..or that he didn't in 1996 or 1998?

NEVER

Pippen NEVER averaged 27 ppg while locking down the other team's superstar

Kyrie had better offense, defense, and passing.. Will there be anything else?

[ShawkFactory]

NEVER

Pippen NEVER averaged 27 ppg while locking down the other team's superstar

Kyrie had better offense, defense, and passing.. Will there be anything else?

Magic Johnson

21/9/7 with lockdown D

27/4/4 with lockdown D

Both are good.

[3ball]

3ball is actually correct on this point

but by age 36 lebron will still surpass jordan

Nah bud - when a player loses their athleticism, the only way they can maintain their dominance is by relying on their jumpshot, which Lebron doesn't have:

Lebron's shot less than 40% from midrange in 10 of 13 seasons, and he only shot 28% from 3-point range this season (only 32% for his playoff career).

[Quickening]

Ok a top 5 player in the 90s is worse than a top 20 player now, we all know it was a watered down era, no need to go on about it bro

[Tmuston Beltics]

How much less points were scored 20 years ago? Just curious. I think that has something to do with the numbers.

[3ball]

.
[color="navy"]DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS BY QUARTER, 1991 FINALS:[/color]

[color="darkred"]Pippen guarded Magic for:[/color]

GAME 1: none
GAME 2: 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters
GAME 3: 2nd and 3rd quarters
GAME 4: the last 4 minutes of 4th quarter
GAME 5: none


[color="darkred"]Here's all 5 games in their entirety:[/color]

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUC9fSFdik
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6AWPT6fG0
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueGQChyFuU
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0LJVxaqD0
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNFQSBUe5c

[COLOR="Navy"]Overall, MJ guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%), compared to only 6 of 20 for Pippen (30%) [/COLOR].

[3ball]

Magic Johnson

Why come on here and spout things you know aren't true?.. What a waste of time

It's common knowledge and well-documented that Pippen did spot-duty on Magic (see previous post) - he guarded him for 6 of 20 quarters, compared to Jordan's 14 of 20.

Kyrie was the primary defender on Curry for the entire series, not spot duty.

[ShawkFactory]

It's just strange how elementary your arguments become.

You use Pippen's worst 2 finals series as proof that Jordan never had the kind of help Lebron had.

Ignoring the other 4 finals series, and every other player on the team that also contributes.

[CTbasketball92]

NEVER

Pippen NEVER averaged 27 ppg while locking down the other team's superstar

Kyrie had better offense, defense, and passing.. Will there be anything else?

Honestly 3ball, MJ had such an amazing team, i don't see how you can discredit LeBron for having one too. Pippen wasn't as good of a scorer, but he was basically a better draymond green. Didn't they also have Dennis Rodman and ron harper and Toni Kukoc for some of those series? MJ had an incredible squad of stars and role players who always did their job. I'd take Kukoc over love, Ron Harper of JR Smith and Steve Kerr over Delly any day.

LeBron nearly averaged a very efficient triple double and beat a 73 win team after being down 3-1. There's just ... no way to overstate how incredible that is. Also, his stats from this year were vastly superior to Jordan's 1996 run, and probably any of his other ones from the second threepeat. Nobody will ever really acknowledge that, though, so you're good. No one will ever say LeBron's better than MJ, and they probably shouldn't. He's still a top 3 player ever, though.

Side not* Kyrie beasted the whole playoffs w. an MJ-esque midrange game and footwork and crafty finishes.

[3ball]

You use Pippen's worst 2 finals series as proof that Jordan never had the kind of help Lebron had.

Those two series show that Jordan won with less than Lebron ever did - Lebron never won with a 2nd option playing as horrible as Pippen did.

Lebron won in 2016 with Kyrie playing better offense and defense than Pippen ever did, while being the superior passer.

He won in 2012 and 2013 with Wade providing far superior offense and equal playmaking to Pippen, and also a 10-time all-star as his 3rd option and the second-best shooter ever as his 4th option.

Btw, this isn't just my opinion - the 538 rankings of supporting cast says Jordan won with weaker supporting casts in 1991 and 1993 than Lebron's 2012 and 2013 casts.

[Hey Yo]

Those two series show that Jordan won with less than Lebron ever did - Lebron never won with a 2nd option playing as horrible as Pippen did.

Lebron won in 2016 with Kyrie playing better offense and defense than Pippen ever did, while being the superior passer.

He won in 2012 and 2013 with Wade providing far superior offense and equal playmaking to Pippen, and also a 10-time all-star as his 3rd option and the second-best shooter ever as his 4th option.

Time to put these on......shit's getting pretty deep in this thread.

[jlip]

.


[COLOR="DarkRed"]PIPPEN[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 1996 FINALS[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15 ppg on 34%
[COLOR="DarkRed"]PIPPEN[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 1998 FINALS[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15 ppg on 41%


Jordan won with less, alot less

What is so funny about you hand picking these two Finals is these are the very Finals where MJ's teammates were getting the most FMVP talk over him. In '96 Rodman was so busy breaking offensive rebounding records that the coach of the opposing team claimed that Rodman won the Bulls two games in the series.

I already posted a link to a thread where you flat lied regarding the Pippen FMVP conversation in '98.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...8&postcount=84

[3ball]

Pippen wasn't as good of a scorer, but he was basically a better draymond green.

Draymond was the Warriors' 3rd option, compared to Pippen being 2nd option, so that means the Warriors were much deeper.

Didn't they also have Dennis Rodman for some of those series?

Dennis Rodman was 34-36 years old alongside Jordan - he didn't make ANY all-defensive teams in 1997 or 1998.. He averaged 4/8 for the entire 1997 playoffs and wasn't even a starter in the 1998 playoffs..

Ron Harper was an ordinary 7 ppg role player that EVERY TEAM HAS - ditto Kukocs, who was a 12 ppg role player that played no defense.. These are guys that EVERY team has.

Btw, saying you'd take Kukoc over Love is ludicrous - Kukoc career high is 18/5 as a 1st option in 1999 (when MJ and Pip had left), compared to Love's 26/13 and All-NBA status... Don't blame Love because Lebron craters his stats - Lebron does that to ALL pf's - just look at Bosh.. The historical facts are clear-cut.

I'd take Ron Harper of JR Smith and Steve Kerr over Delly any day.

You're crazy, but it doesn't matter, because all those guys are marginal role players that EVERY team has..

So it's dumb to say "MJ's team had Kerr, Kukoc, and Harper" because every team has marginal players like this.

LeBron nearly averaged a very efficient triple double and beat a 73 win team [COLOR="Red"]after being down 3-1[/COLOR]. There's just ... no way to overstate how incredible that is.

Coming back from 3-1 is less impressive than winning in 6 or less every time and NOT ever needing a 7th game.

Also, his stats from this year were vastly superior to Jordan's 1996 run

Jordan's worst Finals should be compared to Lebron's worst..

Lebron's worst was 17 ppg in 2011, and 22 ppg on 35% in 2007... These stats are far worse than Jordan's 27 ppg on 42% in 1996 Finals.

Most importantly, Jordan's stats were EXCEPTIONAL compared to everyone else in the series - for example, Pippen averaged 15 ppg on 34% (worst 2nd option performance ever).. Otoh, Wade averaged 27 ppg in 2011 Finals - so Jordan's 1996 Finals is WORLDS better than Lebron's 2007 or 2011 Finals.

[3ball]

Time to put these on......shit's getting pretty deep in this thread.

Curry had Jordan-level offense in the regular season, but was held to 22 ppg on 40% against Kyrie in the Finals.

Show me where Pippen locked down a 2-time MVP, or ANY superstar in the playoffs as their primary defender.