I just bet 7k on the Heat beating the Bulls

[Jackass18]

Malone and Payton were both well past their respective primes. The difference is as obvious as the nose on your face.

Come on, man. That comparison isn't even worth discussing.

Wait, so it's only fair when players who are perceived to be past their primes? Players who are in their primes don't also want to win? I will also say that the Heat have been tested in the playoffs. The Bulls were 1 shot away from tying the series 2-2, and they've had a lot of close games. It's just that the Heat have been clutch late in games.

[RedBlackAttack]

So Wade/Lebron are supposed to potentially waste half a decade of their career and not win so they can get together when their 30 because then they are "allowed to cause they're vets? Or they could do what they did and have a much better chance of winning one or more rings.

Say what you will about their competitive spirits or whatever but it is nobodys place to say when they can team up because of some "unwritten rule." In their prime or past doesn't make a difference for me.

"Waste" half a decade? They should be in the conversation for the best players that have ever played. No players before them have taken the route that they did and those other guys earned plenty of trophies.

No one said that they had to stay in Cleveland or Miami or anywhere else. They had the right to pick a different situation if they felt that they were unable to get it done with the team that drafted them. There were PLENTY of options.

By choosing to team-up, though, they did something unprecedented in this league.

And, it isn't just 'unwritten rules' preventing what those guys did (although, that is part of it)... There are ACTUAL rules that attempt to prevent it. There is a rule against collusion, which pretty obviously happened, here. And, the way that the CBA is written up, there is a real written rule that tries to protect against this.

However, they skirted around those rules and, as a result, the owners and commissioners office is trying like hell to institute a hard cap to prevent this from ever happening again... Along with doing away with the S&T so that guys who do what these guys did can get their max contracts from the teams that they left on their way out the door.

So, there are 'unwritten' rules and 'written' rules that try to prevent against it.

...and, those rules may be increased tenfold after this charade.

[GP_20]

Malone and Payton were both well past their respective primes. The difference is as obvious as the nose on your face.

Come on, man. That comparison isn't even worth discussing.

RBA you have become extremely delusional.

1st of all, what do you mean Miami hasn't been challenged in the playoffs and they don't have to work to win? They are playing extremely hard and their and that is what it has taken to get past Boston and take a 3-1 lead over Chicago. It hasn't come 'easy' and they have had to work for it.

2nd, you know that the ratings for the NBA are the highest in a while this year? So is this bad for the NBA or just bad for you? Hmmm


3rd, you're acting like Miami was the run-away favorite all year and there was no doubt in anyone's mind they would win it at any point this year. That's basically what you said when you said in the 80s Boston had LA to worry about and LA had Boston to worry about.

Most of the year Miami was NOT the favorite to win the championship. I would know I check the basketball odds from Vegas who is favorited to win. In fact I think before the playoffs Lakers were the favorites still. So this is not the case where there is 1 Super Team and no competition for them.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wait, so it's only fair when players who are perceived to be past their primes? Players who are in their primes don't also want to win? I will also say that the Heat have been tested in the playoffs. The Bulls were 1 shot away from tying the series 2-2, and they've had a lot of close games. It's just that the Heat have been clutch late in games.

They're dangerously close to winning their first three playoff series 4-1, 4-1, 4-1...

Those aren't close series under any stretch.

And, yeah... Generally, the best players in the game haven't wanted to team-up to take the easiest possible paths in their primes. That is a concession that they only make after they have tried to do it on conventional teams during their primes and failed. All you have to do is look at history to see that.

[GP_20]

You talk about how different it is from the past


It is quite similar to Moses Malone to the 76ers in 83


Let's take a look at 1982:


-76ers Went to the NBA Finals

-Julius Erving was MVP in 81 and 3rd in MVP voting in 82, and considered a Top 3 player in 82 with All-NBA 1st selections having one of his best seasons

-Moses Malone was the NBA MVP in 82



In 83 Moses Malone joins the 76ers. To create a "super-team". Here we have Erving and Moses, 2 of the Top 3 players in 82, teaming up. Moses Malone was on a crappy Houston team (Like LeBron was on a crappy Cavs team) where he won MVP, and now moves to a good team to win the champioship.



Sure there might be small difference you can point out. But here we do see 2 players at the prime of their careers team up. And guess what, 30 years no no one cares how they won their only title (both of them), but they did and they are given respect for it.



LBJ will go down as a Top 10 player (lock) and Wade in the 10-20 range.

[GP_20]

On a side-note


I personally respect LeBron James more after he left Cleveland for Miami.
It shows he cares about winning (the objective of the game) more than statistics which everyone used to make fun of him for.


So yeah LBJ won more respect from me after he went to Miami. Wade was already my favorite player (He won GP a ring), but now both are about the same for me. He made the "right" decision.

[RedBlackAttack]

RBA you have become extremely delusional.

1st of all, what do you mean Miami hasn't been challenged in the playoffs and they don't have to work to win? They are playing extremely hard and their and that is what it has taken to get past Boston and take a 3-1 lead over Chicago. It hasn't come 'easy' and they have had to work for it.

2nd, you know that the ratings for the NBA are the highest in a while this year? So is this bad for the NBA or just bad for you? Hmmm


3rd, you're acting like Miami was the run-away favorite all year and there was no doubt in anyone's mind they would win it at any point this year. That's basically what you said when you said in the 80s Boston had LA to worry about and LA had Boston to worry about.

Most of the year Miami was NOT the favorite to win the championship. I would know I check the basketball odds from Vegas who is favorited to win. In fact I think before the playoffs Lakers were the favorites still. So this is not the case where there is 1 Super Team and no competition for them.

What the f#ck does it matter if they were 'favorites all year'? The team was put together with the thought that it would make getting a title(s) easy. The guys said as much in the lead-up to the season... And that is what the playoffs have proven to be.


They are playing hard, eh? I would hope so. Again, what the f#ck does that have to do with anything?

Lastly, I don't gauge what is best for the league based on ratings. I couldn't care less how many people are watching. I don't like the juking of the system and great players taking the path of least resistance. If you do like it, fine... We are just looking for different things out of the NBA and its greatest players.

Say, maybe they can find a way to convince DHo and CP3 to take less money this offseason... Then, ratings would be REALLY great and I bet they would play REALLY hard.

Fantastic.

[Jackass18]

I'm totally beyond it and excited for the draft this year...

Why? I know you have 2 high picks, but this seems like an awfully weak draft class. You're probably going to be taking a Freshman who only played in like 10 games and someone like Kanter. You're probably going to end up with 2 unproven guys that you hope will pan out. I liked what I saw out of Kanter in the predraft camp, but still you're talking about 2 guys who anyone has barely seen play.

[RedBlackAttack]

Why? I know you have 2 high picks, but this seems like an awfully weak draft class. You're probably going to be taking a Freshman who only played in like 10 games and someone like Kanter. You're probably going to end up with 2 unproven guys that you hope will pan out. I liked what I saw out of Kanter in the predraft camp, but still you're talking about 2 guys who anyone has barely seen play.

I just like the uncertainty of it all, to be honest. I think both Irving and Kanter could end up being very good and it will be fun seeing how it plays out, if those are our two picks. I also like the prospect of building a team instead of a mish-mash of veterans and hustle guys around one superstar.

The thing that I think people are missing is that, I don't expect either of these guys to be saviors. I just want solid, young players that could potentially be building blocks for a real 'team.'

I'm much happier in this spot with the rebuild than floating around the No. 8 seed in the playoffs, getting ousted in the first round every year, and having a mid-round draft pick.

Regardless of how good this draft turns out to be, this thing isn't going to happen overnight. We will probably be in the lottery again next year. Having the No. 1 and No. 4 draft picks is NEVER a bad thing, regardless of what you think of this year's draft.

I'm excited.

[GP_20]

RBA can you at least admit Top 3 players HAVE decided to team up in the past to create a "Super-Team" and eventually it did not matter how they did that. MVP Moses Malone to the already contending 76ers with Top 3 player Dr.J in his prime is the example.

It doesn't matter HOW they came together or when they came together. Ultimately, it is all about the accomplishments and rings.

[RedBlackAttack]

RBA can you at least admit Top 3 players HAVE decided to team up in the past to create a "Super-Team" and eventually it did not matter how they did that. MVP Moses Malone to the already contending 76ers with Top 3 player Dr.J in his prime is the example.

Dr. J was absolutely not a Top 3 player in the league in 1982-83. He was still very good, but he was also 32 years old, clearly no longer in his athletic prime and he had played in 11 professional seasons prior to that. Hell, he only played for four seasons after 1983. He was clearly no longer a Top 3 player in the NBA. How can you possibly compare a situation like that to these three guys joining forces at this point in their respective careers?

It doesn't matter HOW they came together or when they came together. Ultimately, it is all about the accomplishments and rings.

Completely disagree. It does matter how championship teams are built.

[GP_20]

Dr. J was absolutely not a Top 3 player in the league in 1982-83. He was still very good, but he was also 32 years old, clearly no longer in his athletic prime and he had played in 11 professional seasons prior to that. Hell, he only played for four seasons after 1983. He was clearly no longer a Top 3 player in the NBA. How can you possibly compare a situation like that to these three guys joining forces at this point in their respective careers?




Completely disagree. It does matter how championship teams are built.

I said he was a Top 3 player in 82. Which there was no doubt he was. Or at least as good of a case as Wade. And even in 83 he was still All-NBA 1st. But we are debating on the act of joining and creating a superteam
, and for that 82 is more relevant.

So YES 2 Top 3 players have come together to build a superteam.

[Jackass18]

They're dangerously close to winning their first three playoff series 4-1, 4-1, 4-1...

As I said, the series was 1 shot away from being even at 2-2, and the Heat have been a in a lot of close games, but they've just been clutch late. If a team were to sweep 4-0, but won all 4 games in OT does that mean they weren't tested? I don't think they've had an easy road. Look how relieved they were when they beat the Celtics. They didn't treat it like they had it in the bag the whole time.

It doesn't matter HOW they came together or when they came together. Ultimately, it is all about the accomplishments and rings.

I agree. Not everyone can be as lucky in the draft as the Spurs were in '97, '99 and '01. You can't always build up a great team through the draft while adding valuable role players in FA or through trades. Sometimes you have to do big things for big things to happen. There are downsides to super teams. There's immense pressure for them to win, there can be chemistry issues when you mix large egos, and they have a big target on their back.

RBA, how would you feel if James stayed in Cleveland, but they added Wade and Bosh and were able to win 3 titles in a row?

[Dolphin]

I just don't get why this is a bad thing at all.....people who complain about them coming together remind me of parents who's kids are in little league and complain to the commissioner that a certain 6' kid shouldn't be allowed to pitch because he's that good.

What ever happened to people looking up at the giant(s) and trying to slay him or them?

People who want nothing but parity (a bit of both is fine for me) are the people who think giving kids participation ribbons (lol) for grade school track meets or stickers for getting 60% on a test is a must. They don't want to instill into people that there are those better than you and that you need to rise to the occasion to get to the top or that you aren't the best at something and you need to try harder to succeed.

And no, turning it around by saying "Well Lebron didn't rise to the occasion either, he took the easy way out" isn't the same. He found a way to better himself. it doesn't matter how he did it unless he cheated (I mean really cheated, not him talking to Bosh or Wade earlier than he should have lol). Now it's on the others to find a way to climb to the mountain top. They don't deserve anyone's pity.

[RedBlackAttack]

I said he was a Top 3 player in 82. Which there was no doubt he was. Or at least as good of a case as Wade. And even in 83 he was still All-NBA 1st. But we are debating on the act of joining and creating a superteam
, and for that 82 is more relevant.

So YES 2 Top 3 players have come together to build a superteam.

Certainly, Dr. J was not a Top 3 player in 1982, either.

Moses, Kareem, Gervin, Bird

There were the Top 4 players in the league that season. Julius was somewhere after that, but he didn't have an argument for Top 3 that season. Bird was young (at least, young in that version of the NBA), but he was completely unreal that season... You are talking 23, 11, 6 on 50+% shooting and leading a very young Cs team to the conference finals.


Even if you do think Dr. J at 31 had as much claim to a Top 3 player as Wade did last year, Dr. J was clearly nearing his decline and not in his physical prime... Unlike Wade, James and Bosh coming into this season.

Also, I will re-state that, in that incarnation of the NBA, the league was smaller and the construction of the CBA allowed for teams to be really stacked with several elite players.

It is a different league today and, when you build a team and have to go back to 1982 to find an even remotely comparable situation (which is still way off), it just shows how unique this thing is.

We haven't even touched upon the fact that they also have an elite PF who is just entering his prime, which really takes the Sixers comparison out of the conversation. Bosh has been the most consistently good player in this ECF series.

As I said, they just overwhelm teams with talent. That isn't the kind of team I respect.