Michael Jeffrey Jordan is the GOAT because he developed his team from the ground up.

[guy]

Good points. People act like Russell joined a dynasty. Russell, Wilt, KAJ, Bird, Shaq, LeBron, MJ all joined lousy teams. That is how the draft works. The only exceptions are Kobe (mid-pick and from high school) and Magic. MJythologists act as if only MJ joined a poor team.

You're such a joke You continue to act like you have any idea what and/or how to measure the circumstances of situations from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and even the 90s. Just STFU Its incredible that you think the game can be so easily simplified this way and I'm sure its insulting to anyone that has actually been part of the game.

[Roundball_Rock]

No, you've missed it. The first poster claimed that without Jordan's 41ppg (the 93 finals) that the Bulls wouldn't win. Another poster claimed that the scoring would come from elsewhere. You then said that two of those players shot awfully. The irony is then that the very next year they shot better without Jordan than with him. So what happened 2 years before it is kind of irrelevant.

Regardless, it doesn't change the point. You can't assume that without him they'll automatically shoot worse. They might even shoot better.

Exactly. Look at when MJ returned. Pippen shot worse in 96' than he did in 95' without MJ.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You're such a joke You continue to act like you have any idea what and/or how to measure the circumstances of situations from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and even the 90s. Just STFU Its incredible that you think the game can be so easily simplified this way and I'm sure its insulting to anyone that has actually been part of the game.

What did he say that was incorrect, though? Most of those guys were drafted to shitty situations; and most of them turned their franchises over.

[guy]

What did he say that was incorrect, though? Most of those guys were drafted to shitty situations; and most of them turned their franchises over.

They all turned their franchises over. Its not what he says, but his implication. The whole "how many games was some team better or worse without the superstar" argument that he's been using for years is so ridiculously stupid because he doesn't know or just ignores the exact circumstance and how it affected each situation and that's basically the baseline of all of his arguments.

[Eric Cartman]

Gotta respect these Jordan stans, no quit in them.

[kurple]

Top 5 all time based off this criterion:

#1 Jordan
#2 Bird
#3 Kobe
#4 Duncan
#5 Hakeem
#6 Wiggins?

kobe?

this would apply if Kobe won 5 rings with the Hornets

get the fvck outta here

[Roundball_Rock]

What did he say that was incorrect, though? Most of those guys were drafted to shitty situations; and most of them turned their franchises over.

Exactly. It is not a controversial point. Other than Kobe, all of those players were heralded coming into the NBA and all were high picks. KAJ, Magic, Shaq, LeBron, Hakeem, and Duncan were #1 picks. Russell went #2 and MJ #3. Bird was #6. (Wilt was a "territorial pick") Is it any surprise they went to lousy teams in most cases? That is how the draft works, unless an average or good team owns a bad team's pick or trades up. The insecurity of these people...

[knicksman]

The difference between winners and losers. Winners let their teammates shine and just steps up when it matters. Theyre not insecure to let their teammates have their moments. While losers statpads like crazy in the regular season and are insecure when their teammates outshines them. And worse is that they expect their ass to be saved when the going gets tough. Thus 2/5, 5/7, 6/6

[Da_Realist]

It's funny how incredibly stupid the "Jordan never won without Pippen and Phil so he would've never win without them" argument is yet so many people don't see the flaws in it and actually think there's sound logic behind it.

Especially considering that every other star that has ever won a championship did so without Scottie Pippen. And most of them did it without Phil Jackson. It's happened many times, but somehow MJ would have never figured it out.

I guarantee somebody this year will figure out how to win a championship without Scottie or Phil. It may even be someone that's won multiple championships without them already.

[Roundball_Rock]

You live by the sword, you die by the sword. MJ fans for years were always the first to raise "X won with Y and/or Z" to diminish other players' team success on ISH. This was particularly the case vis-

[Da_Realist]

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]You live by the sword, you die by the sword. MJ fans for years were always the first to raise "X won with Y and/or Z" to diminish other players' team success on ISH. This was particularly the case vis-