Starting a Team - Larry Bird or Kobe Bryant

[Duncan21formvp]

Both Bird and Kobe went to franchises that were used to winning. Celtics had 13 titles before Bird played with them and had been in 14 finals. Lakers had 11 titles before Kobe came and been in 24 finals.
So let's say both went to franchises with 0 titles and 0 finals appearances who is more capable of leading a franchise to titles that never won before?

[KevinNYC]

Does this mean I get 23 year old Bird as a rookie, and his career plays out roughly the same, and 17-year old Kobe as well, etc?

If yes, I take Kobe for longevity. Bird only had roughly 10 elite years(79-90 minus 88-89), though his peak was definitely better.

If I get something like a fully healthy Bird as a 21 year old rookie, I'd take him.

If we are starting a team, now that means that Bird would be able to take advantage of all the advances in training which means he would last longer.....Of course, you would have to convince him that millionaires don't have redo their own driveway and can just hire someone....which is how he suffered his first back injury....but he was brought up poor and didn't see the reason people would pay someone else to do that.

Bird also made his teammates excited to play with him from day 1. Cedric Maxwell was a big doubter of Bird and thought he was overhyped, but after one preseason, he recognized that Bird made the game easier for him. Kobe doesn't bring that to a team and has to spend a lot of time maturing.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

If we are starting a team, now that means that Bird would be able to take advantage of all the advances in training which means he would last longer.....Of course, you would have to convince him that millionaires don't have redo their own driveway and can just hire someone....which is how he suffered his first back injury....but he was brought up poor and didn't see the reason people would pay someone else to do that.

Bird also made his teammates excited to play with him from day 1. Cedric Maxwell was a big doubter of Bird and thought he was overhyped, but after one preseason, he recognized that Bird made the game easier for him. Kobe doesn't bring that to a team and has to spend a lot of time maturing.

Bird age on Day 1 23
Kobe's age on Day 1 18

[KevinNYC]

I didn't mean Bird would last longer than Kobe, I meant 21st century Bird would last longer than 80's Bird...and his prime would probably be significantly extended.

Also Bird turned 23 that season, but was nearly 23 on day 1

[KevinNYC]

Also for those saying Bird's game didn't translate to playoffs, Bird's Career playoff averages including post injury years are

23.8p
10.3r
6.5a
1.8s
.9b

[KevinNYC]

for what it's worth, Bird has said that Kobe is his favorite current player.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I didn't mean Bird would last longer than Kobe, I meant 21st century Bird would last longer than 80's Bird...and his prime would probably be significantly extended.

Also Bird turned 23 that season, but was nearly 23 on day 1

That's not what I'm referring to. You cite Larry Bird's advanced maturity on Day 1 over Kobe as a benefit. He was a full grown man. Kobe was 18 years old. What do you expect? Do you think 18 year old Larry Bird was as mature as 23 year old Larry Bird?

[KevinNYC]

That's not what I'm referring to. You cite Larry Bird's advanced maturity on Day 1 over Kobe as a benefit. He was a full grown man. Kobe was 18 years old. What do you expect? Do you think 18 year old Larry Bird was as mature as 23 year old Larry Bird?

Wouldn't that be a factor when you started a team?

What I was referring to in terms of Kobe's maturity is really their approaches to the game. Both are super-hard workers and dedicated to developing their game
However, Bird loves the team game and was known since high school as a guy who was adept at getting every one involved. Kobe for most of his career was known as a guy who wanted the spotlight and would do team-chemistry things like screaming at another player who took a shot that Kobe thought should be his.

I just think it would be harder to build around Kobe.

[jlip]

Wouldn't that be a factor when you started a team?

What I was referring to in terms of Kobe's maturity is really their approaches to the game. Both are super-hard workers and dedicated to developing their game
However, Bird loves the team game and was known since high school as a guy who was adept at getting every one involved. Kobe for most of his career was known as a guy who wanted the spotlight and would do team-chemistry things like screaming at another player who took a shot that Kobe thought should be his.

I just think it would be harder to build around Kobe.

This is what I would say also. It actually has less to do with who is even the better player. It's more about the styles and approaches. Bird's game is much more inherently team oriented and it would be easier to plug in didn't types of pieces around him. Kobe's game would require a more specific setof pieces to compliment him.

[colts19]

That's not what I'm referring to. You cite Larry Bird's advanced maturity on Day 1 over Kobe as a benefit. He was a full grown man. Kobe was 18 years old. What do you expect? Do you think 18 year old Larry Bird was as mature as 23 year old Larry Bird?

Had Larry gone to the NBA when he was 18, he would have been a much better player than Kobe at 18. I saw him play when he was sitting out a year while waiting to start at ISU and said from the first practice I saw him he was the best forward I ever saw.

He could have been a top 20 player (probably higher) at 18 years old in the NBA.