Kobe vs LeBron 2007-08 season

[RoundMoundOfReb]

its not that fairy tale-y in rl breh.. he didnt play alongside Kobe and suddenly learned to play defense lol

Cavaliers were 0-7 that year without LeBron

Carried the team more than Kobe did.

Neck to neck man...

This. People just assume it's Kobe because they've convinced themselves that he was the best player in the association at some point...and since LeBron took over right after in 2009 they think it's 2008.

I bet if this poll were taken in 2008 it would be close to 50/50.

[Suguru101]

its not that fairy tale-y in rl breh.. he didnt play alongside Kobe and suddenly learned to play defense lol

Cavaliers were 0-7 that year without LeBron

Carried the team more than Kobe did.

Neck to neck man...

I said "applied himself defensively", not hat he learned how to play defense. LeBron talked about it during season interviews during 2009, how he started taking pride on the defensive side and started applying much more effort after having talks with and seeing Kidd and Kobe during the Olympics.

Cleveland was 0-7 without LeBron because if you take out LeBron, the team was garbage. That doesn't make LeBron automatically better than Kobe.

I watched those games, i've been a fan of LeBron since 06. He had flaws in his game in 08 with a lack of post game, lack of good footwork, lack of mid-range shooting and lack of consistent 3-point shooting that made him incomplete offensively, and thus exploitable by an elite NBA defense.

Did you see the first 3 games of the 2013 NBA Finals? LeBron averaged like 18 points because the Spurs gave him a few feet of cushion and dared him to shoot. He had to start making this shots consistently to be able to beat them, and he only won the 2012 Finals because he abused the Thunder with his post game. THAT LeBron is better than any version of Kobe. 08 LeBron? He wouldn't have won those two Finals. He had flaws. Stop being so biased that you can't admit it. I watched those games, i followed that season, so stop relying on only numbers to answer this question.

[ArbitraryWater]

Hey, I agreee with you for the most part, the Olympic nature and star studded cast made him pay more attention to detail..

Thing is, LeBron's ALWAYW found ways to score, even with all those flaws.. this year, as you mentioned 2012, and in '08 he had more of a bullish, strong/fast rim attack out of the half court than now.. just that gifted.

Did he struggle with it against the #1 defense in the NBA? Yes, but so has and did Kobe, ALWAYS... So it's closer than you think, or closer than I used to think.

I'll come back later.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

K I was thinking Kobe on defense too but was wondering what kuniva thought. However Lebron always had that versatility by being able to switch onto 4's so that helps. That athleticism didn't hurt either.

I think LeBron's chase down block became a huge staple in his game, but like others mentioned, his man defense wasn't as great as the following year where he honed his skills during the summer Olympics.

Having said that, Kobe was still a net negative on defense in 2008. He was the better man defender BUT took a lot of plays off to focus on scoring and up his offensive averages. LeBron was a net plus and gave you more effort on that end despite the lack of skills if you will.

http://www.gotbuckets.com/statistics/rapm/2008-rapm/

This is probably the ONLY website with legit RAPM (sites.google.com/site/rapmstats has too many errors as the author mentioned). SWaGR is also cool because it accounts for games played, and since Kobe made the finals, he computed the highest numbers.

[Prime_Shaq]

Hey, I agreee with you for the most part, the Olympic nature and star studded cast made him pay more attention to detail..

Thing is, LeBron's ALWAYW found ways to score, even with all those flaws.. this year, as you mentioned 2012, and in '08 he had more of a bullish, strong/fast rim attack out of the half court than now.. just that gifted.

Did he struggle with it against the #1 defense in the NBA? Yes, but so has and did Kobe, ALWAYS... So it's closer than you think, or closer than I used to think.

I'll come back later.

I actually miss that LeBron man, he was a man on a mission getting to the rim. Was so quick and agile.

[Just2McFly]

Kobe.

[plowking]

lol Kobe was better.

[Indian guy]

2008 is LeBron's physical peak. Just an insane athlete with an even more insane motor. He was relentless with his playmaking. Always on the attack. That's how you lead the league in scoring on impressive efficiency with a jumper that limited. The latter is the key though. The truly great defenses could limit LeBron back in 2008, because he was still so dependent on getting inside in order to score. You couldn't really do that with 2008 Kobe. You just hoped he missed. LeBron didn't really surpass him until the following season, when his jumper reached respectability and his skills/approach to the game also became more portable. It's a shame what awful teams he was on during his first Cleveland stint though. Watching quite a few 2008 Cavaliers games lately, that LeBron would've absolutely won championships with most of the rosters he's been on post-Decision. And something like the 2011 Finals would never happen to the 2008 version. He was too much of a freak to ever be passive.

[ArbitraryWater]

2008 is LeBron's physical peak. Just an insane athlete with an even more insane motor. He was relentless with his playmaking. Always on the attack. That's how you lead the league in scoring on impressive efficiency with a jumper that limited. The latter is the key though. The truly great defenses could limit LeBron back in 2008, because he was still so dependent on getting inside in order to score. You couldn't really do that with 2008 Kobe. You just hoped he missed. LeBron didn't really surpass him until the following season, when his jumper reached respectability and his skills/approach to the game also became more portable. It's a shame what awful teams he was on during his first Cleveland stint though. Watching quite a few 2008 Cavaliers games lately, that LeBron would've absolutely won championships with most of the rosters he's been on post-Decision. And something like the 2011 Finals would never happen to the 2008 version. He was too much of a freak to ever be passive.

This is such a good point... also, the youth aspect... being young, it can just really make you play carefree, in a good sense...

does anyone really see '09 Bron or '03 Dirk choke if they make the finals?

They did choke later, at more mature, thoughtful points of their careers.... 2011 Bron had mental deficiencies and that was with him to that point, but does that mean he would have choked earlier, '09 or '08? Probably not... he did show it in 2011 though.

Plus, the earlier you get that out of the way, the sooner you are more tolerant for those moments.... its a learning experience.

Its like with a still young KD in 2012.... didnt think too much, just went out there and balled.... clutch af. Now hes too conscious, the fear of missing, the thought of missing, is too much in his head, ala LeBron in 2011.

But in 2008, 2009? Just a freak... missed everything through 4 games and then obliterated the Celtics defense in game 7 on the road...

[ArbitraryWater]

Here are the combined RAPM's for the year (impact, non box-score):

Bron
4.82

Kobe
4.51

I have different RAPM numbers.

Kobe: 6.58
LBJ: 6.33

I have different ones:

Bron: 6.2
Kobe: 6.1