A Frank Discussion About Kyrie Irving

[JtotheIzzo]

I often go to the NBA Forum for consensus on certain things basketball, because once you swim through the trolling you actually do find answers, and good answers, answers so accurate that it is hard to discuss basketball with people outside this forum because they don't have the reps we do when it comes to player comparisons, GOAT etc.

We are well tooled and have plodded through a lot of the research.

My thinking now though is that we have totally missed the mark with Kyrie Irving. Board consensus has him ranked as the 7th or 8th PG in the NBA, behind Paul, Westbrook, Rose, Curry, Parker,Lillard, Dragic and the likes, but I am gonna say right here, right now that he is higher than that.

Why?

1-ESPN has him as the 8th best player in the league, and we have him as the 8th best PG? I know ESPN is what it is, but how can we be so adrift rankings wise?

2-He has started over Derrick Rose this entire World Cup. Yes Rose is battling back from injury, but remember two weeks before the tourney the leaked video of Rose being 'better than ever', 'in the best shape of his life."

3-Irving was ASG MVP. I take a lot of heat for trumping this, but when you look at who has won this award it is a clear alpha move. All the best players are there, they care, and it takes a special kind of skill/swag to take this game over.

4-He is about to embark on a long playoff run that will put him in the spotlight. He is now a member of a special team that will be in big moments.

I think we need to re-evaluate how we look at Irving.

[Cocaine80s]

Kyrie was a top 5 pg in the 12-13 season. He has a slump this year but I think playing with Lebron and Love will help him out a lot

[Budadiiii]

Individually he is the most talented PG in the league.

He doesn't make others around him better and is not a great leader.

Almost like Carmelo in the sense that he is a very gifted and natural scorer but lacks certain winning intangibles that you'll see with guys like Westbrook or Paul.

Now that he doesn't have the burden of being "the man" I can actually appreciate him for what he is. Watching this guy handle a basketball and instinctively score gets my dick hard as hell.

[nathanjizzle]

the year before last year i had him at top 3 pg.

[JtotheIzzo]

Individually he is the most talented PG in the league.

He doesn't make others around him better and is not a great leader.

Almost like Carmelo in the sense that he is a very gifted and natural scorer but lacks certain winning intangibles that you'll see with guys like Westbrook or Paul.

Now that he doesn't have the burden of being "the man" I can actually appreciate him for what he is. Watching this guy handle a basketball and instinctively score gets my dick hard as hell.

Why has Chris Paul never displayed a winning tangible?

I swear that is one guy we have been hyping for a decade and hasn't done shit.

What other consensus third best player in the league could get away with constant playoff failure?

[unbreakable]

he will be exposed in the playoffs as having NO D and being a selfish, over dribbler

[dubeta]

I like kyrie a lot, he definitely is a good player

100% deserving of being the PG of the Cavs, a sure fire starting PG in the league

[Collie]

I think it's because we perceive Kyrie from the POV of his play last year, where he regressed a little, while ESPN takes the POV of what Kyrie could potentially BE, given his FIBA play and his imminent exposure to the global audience.

In other words, we measure him as we do from stats and watching him play, while ESPN is hyping him up a bit more because of what the Cavs could potentially become.

If that makes any sense.

[Kidbasketball20]

Kyrie was a top 5 pg in the 12-13 season. He has a slump this year but I think playing with Lebron and Love will help him out a lot

You know nothing. So stupid.

[Cocaine80s]

You know nothing. So stupid.

想吃點炒飯？

[bdreason]

It's very difficult ranking PG's, because there are so many quality PG's in the league today.

Kyrie has elite level skills in both dribbling and shooting, but still has to improve his playmaking and decision making. He also needs to prove himself on the playoff stage, which I'm sure he'll have a chance to do this coming season.


Kyrie also seems to be a bit injury prone. Seems like he gets hurt at least once every season, even in College.

[The_Pharcyde]

Had season tickets to the cavs last year cause one of my family members worked on their finance team

so I watched a ton of cavaliers ball last year live..
Kyrie is not a good leader, he is very skilled individually
but throughout the game he wasnt controlling the flow and pace of the team , he would get his stats but they were for all for a loss
this team never came out with any inspiration , something that kyrie has to start up
every team in the nba has its identity off its leader, he sets the tone

this team had zero heart, there were times they were boo'ed off the floor, i remember against the pelicans it was real bad. especially considering how weak the east was and that generally great players make huge strides in their third year (Jordan,Lebron, rose, wade etc.) Kyrie failed to do that

so while kyrie is very talented, he does not contribute to W's
a PG in the same vein as marbury and francis, not playing style but how they controlled the game and lead the squad.

we will see what happens with lebron in town

o yeah and james harden is thibodeau compared to kyrie on Defense
this guy doesn't give a shit

[poido123]

Here's a dose of objectivity.

He defended better than Rose to this point in FIBA.

But that isn't saying much.

[andremiller07]

The top 3-15 literally change on a daily basis during the season

[G-train]

1-ESPN has him as the 8th best player in the league, and we have him as the 8th best PG? I know ESPN is what it is, but how can we be so adrift rankings wise?
Answered your own question, ESPN is what it is, and that's terrible.

2-He has started over Derrick Rose this entire World Cup. Yes Rose is battling back from injury, but remember two weeks before the tourney the leaked video of Rose being 'better than ever', 'in the best shape of his life."
Answered your own question, Rose is coming back from injury.

3-Irving was ASG MVP. I take a lot of heat for trumping this, but when you look at who has won this award it is a clear alpha move. All the best players are there, they care, and it takes a special kind of skill/swag to take this game over.
Not sure if serious. This has no bearing on reality. I can name 20 alpha players that never won this award off the top of my head.

4-He is about to embark on a long playoff run that will put him in the spotlight. He is now a member of a special team that will be in big moments.
Not sure how this effects his current ranking.