Your opinion of the value regular season MVPs?

[Hands of Iron]

Or why Thomas wasn't even top 10 in the voting after his comments regarding Larry Bird.

Yeah, what a stupid little c-u-n-t. Says that shit after Bird puts 37/9/9 on his team in Game 7 and off the season in which he becomes the only player in history to put up 25+ PPG on 50/40/90 percentages across the board, at 28.1 PPG. Did it again the following season, only that time at 30 PPG. Nobody's come close to doing it at that volume before or since. But yeah, he'd be just another player if he wasn't white. Jesus Christ.

How the hell is that disrespect? What year was Bird better than Jordan going rookie season vs rookie season and so on?

Bird is in my top 5-6 all time but he was never better than Jordan at the same age.

He might win one in year 2 when Jordan was injured, or when Jordan retired.

It's absolutely disrespect. Bird was pretty damn great in Years 5-9:

5th: 24/10/7 on 49/25/89
6th: 29/11/7 on 52/43/88
7th: 26/10/7 on 50/42/90
8th: 28/9/8 on 53/40/91
9th: 30/9/6 on 53/41/92

He's superior as far as shooting, rebounding, passing/playmaking, court vision in addition to being an elite scorer himself and every bit as clutch. Interesting that both Jordan and Bird missed the season following Year 9 (Bird due to injury) after going 57-25 with their teams. The Bulls win two fewer games and the Celtics drop to 42-40. He also joined a team that had won 29 and 32 games respectively the previous two seasons and then miraculously jump to 61-21 but I suppose he didn't have anything to do with that either. These things aren't earned on simply a team record or stat sheet as it's preferable you take in an acceptable number of games to see what a player does to impact and help his team win games. Bird's is irrefutable. Zero MVPs? Just like that.. C'mon man.

[Owl]

Or why Thomas wasn't even top 10 in the voting after his comments regarding Larry Bird.

Isiah's comments came after being eliminated in the conference finals in 7 games in 1987. Surely the vote had been concluded by then. Also Isiah finished 8th that year. So perhaps you mean never again would he finish in the top 10. But thats hardly surprising because at best he finished 5th (gathering a single 1st place vote in 1984, which he followed up with consecutive 9th place finishes) and his numbers were sliding (towards the end of the 80s his %s fell, his assists fell, only his turnovers stayed at around his career average). Isiah wasn't suddenly snubbed by the media, he was just never that good, certainly in regular season.

[Gifted Mind]

Maybe the consensus for this site, Oscar has been in the top ten of every published list I've seen (1 exception, Heroes of the Hardcourt was done by a rather unconventional formula which I think loved titles too much which had him 19th below Tommy Heinsohn).

He may have been Top 10 a few years go, how recent are your published lists?

And if that's the order then Russell over Jordan, Kobe at 4 and Wilt at 10 and even Hakeem over Shaq are distinctly minority opinions.

That was in no order

Looking at the thread it looks a lot like the best player on the title winner (with exceptions where that guy would be really silly e.g. Billups or whichever Piston, Sikma/DJ/Williams), which is very different from being the best player.

You may have misunderstood. That thread was directed at the MVP of the regular season + playoffs. The MVP itself is not given to the best player, but rather the most successful player.

If you want to look at best player:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=102569

[Owl]

He may have been Top 10 a few years go, how recent are your published lists?





That was in no order



You may have misunderstood. That thread was directed at the MVP of the regular season + playoffs. The MVP itself is not given to the best player, but rather the most successful player.

If you want to look at best player:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=102569

The first list is from 1987, then 93, 94, 96, 97, 98, 99, 99, 03, 03, 05, 09, 09, 10, 10 (if counting 2nd edition of the Book of Basketball) 11. And only he, Shaq, Wilt and MJ have topped a list, Oscar twice, Wilt and Shaq once each. So of the recent or semi-recent possible entries to the top 10 (Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe), there have been a good number which have at least had the entireity of Hakeem's career and the balance of Shaq's to make a decision. Shaq for the most part is in, Hakeem isn't. The highest Hakeem gets is a 10 in The Book of Basketball's first edition. He gets shunted down to 11 in the paperback due to Kobe's ascent. Duncan has been in all but one top 10 since 2003 and that hasn't stopped Robertson being in. In the 2 (recent) lists that Kobe made the top 10 in neither case has he pushed Oscar out of it.

Glad it wasn't in order, I saw it didn't correlate with the number of "most successful seasons because for example Mikan wasn't in there.

I got that the thread was about "most successful" but I'm not sure that that is what the MVP is. I certainly don't think it should be. If you gave after the season like that then you'd just be artificially boosting the stock of players on good teams even more so than MVPs do at their worst presently. Giving Moses' '82 MVP to Magic seems to me to be ludicrous. To be clear here I'm not saying it's a bad thread I'm saying "successful seasons" with a high value on your team winning the playoffs would be a very bad way to distribute MVPs. It might plausibly have allowed a post-peak Isiah to sneak off with a couple of MVP trophies.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

The people that vote for the regualr season MVP are sportswriters and broadcasters. These are people that I have zero respect for and therefore I don't value the award much. Coincidentally it seems that the regular season MVP usually has a feel good narrative to go with it. F**king sportswriters.

Does anyone here really believe that Derrick Rose was more valuable than Lebron?

[Graviton]

The people that vote for the regualr season MVP are sportswriters and broadcasters. These are people that I have zero respect for and therefore I don't value the award much. Coincidentally it seems that the regular season MVP usually has a feel good narrative to go with it. F**king sportswriters.

Does anyone here really believe that Derrick Rose was more valuable than Lebron?

To his team, he was. He averaged like 27 PPG vs the top teams, and he closed a lot of games for them. That year he lead the Bulls to the best record with no other allstars. Even in this past season with all the injuries he still had 3 game winners and continued his dominance over other elite PGs. Him and Lebron were also the only ones to completely destroy Spurs defense. People put CP3 in the Top 5, Rose is just as good. People like to say Rose gets carried by Bulls D to discredit him, but we saw what happened in the 1st round. The pressure he puts on opposing defenses is matched only by Lebron.

[swag2011]

It should be renamed. Sometimes the "most valuable player" doesn't get it. Alot of times it goes to the most "outstanding" player. It seems like criteria changes year to year. Plus, if you dont' have the media on your side, chances are you wont get it.

It's too based on team success too. They probably should have one that's most valuable, and one that's most outstanding. Like for instance, if Nash got the Suns to the playoffs this past year (came down to last game) i could see him winning the MVP cause he was valuable to even getting them to that point. But someone like Lebron/Durant could be most outstanding for putting up the pretty stats, ya know what i mean? You could argue their value level to their team, but they both are playing with other stars, unlike Nash was.

IDK, i just think it would be better for 2 separate awards.

[pauk]

Individually it is the highest reward you can get.... Championship is just an icing on top of that cake...

Anybody can get a championship (and even FMVP somewhat as it is based only on 4-7 games between 2 teams, watch cedric, jojo, billups and so on) as it is a team accomplishment, but you cant say the same about the MVP

[guy]

How the hell is that disrespect? What year was Bird better than Jordan going rookie season vs rookie season and so on?

Bird is in my top 5-6 all time but he was never better than Jordan at the same age.

He might win one in year 2 when Jordan was injured, or when Jordan retired.

Bird won MVP in his 5th, 6th, and 7th season. Jordan didn't win MVP in his 5th and 6th season and then won in his 7th. So its absoluetly possible that Bird would've still won MVPs.

[Hands of Iron]

Bird won MVP in his 5th, 6th, and 7th season. Jordan didn't win MVP in his 5th and 6th season and then won in his 7th. So its absoluetly possible that Bird would've still won MVPs.

Bird is actually one of the few who can hold his own next to Jordan peak-for-peak over a 4-5 year period. He took his game to another level from 1984-88 in years 5-9 and was even arguably better the two years following a run of three-consecutive MVPs as those seasons have historical significance as well. As crazy as ren is about 'efficiency' I'm surprised this could go unnoticed.