ISH Group Project: Ranking the top 25 NBA guards of all-time

[Odinn]

This is my list;

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Jerry West
5. Isiah Thomas
6. Oscar Robertson
7. George Gervin
8. Bob Cousy
9. Dwyane Wade
10. Clyde Drexler
11. Allen Iverson
12. Reggie Miller
13. John Stockton
14. Walt Frazier
15. Gary Payton
16. Ray Allen
17. Jason Kidd
18. Tracy McGrady
19. Pete Maravich
20. Steve Nash
21. Tiny Archibald
22. Vince Carter
23. Joe Dumars
24. Chauncey Billups
25. Chris Paul

[Rose]

Nice work Odinn, only a couple things I'd disagree with.

Also I realized I forgot CP3, when he's had arguably 2 of the best seasons for a pg ever.

[G.O.A.T]

You can make a legitimate case for McGrady deserving the 2002-2003 MVP.

Totally disagree. Duncan, Shaq and Garnett were all in their prime and on another level. If the award was going to go to anyone on an average team it was going to be Garnett. McGrady only got 4 of 199 first place votes. Kobe, who got twice as many votes, posted just as good of numbers while playing with Shaq.

[Wukillabeez78]

Nice work Odinn, only a couple things I'd disagree with.

Also I realized I forgot CP3, when he's had arguably 2 of the best seasons for a pg ever.

This is funny... Isiah Thomas's four season run from 1983-84 through 1986-87 is better than anything Chris Paul has done...

[G.O.A.T]

Just reminding everyone the purpose of this thread...please let me know if you intend to participate in the project.











So here is the idea. We take the collective intelligence of ISH (I know scary right) and try to come up with a list of the best 25 guards, forwards and centers in NBA history.

We eliminate PG vs. SG and SF vs. PF which eliminates those pointless debates. The only tough one will be Tim Duncan, but I think he has to go as a F since PF is officially his position.

Here's how it works. Volunteer to participate, if two other members vouch for you, you're in. We'll take between 15 and 25 people for the project.

The opening round will be everyone making their own top 25 list and posting it/editing it as the debate goes on. After a week everyone's list will be final. I'll assign points (25 for first, 1 for 25th) and tally up each players score then post the top 26. From there we will debate and vote on individual match-ups starting with #26 vs. #25. The player who wins the vote will advance to face the #24 ranked player and we will debate that. The player who losses the vote will be slotted in the appropriate spot and that will be our final result.

Do we have any interest?

Interested Members:

L.Kizzle
ThaSwagg3r
Rose
Will3
RRR3
Odinn

[L.Kizzle]

My list.



1. Michael Jordan
2. Earvin "Magic" Johnson
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Oscar Robertson
5. Jerry West
6. Isiah Thomas
7. John Stockton
8. Bob Cousy

9. Walt "Clyde" Frazier
10. Jason Kidd
11. Clyde Drexler
12. Gary Payton
13. Allen Iverson
14. Dywane Wade
15. George Gervin
16. Steve Nash

17. Sam Jones
18. Hal Greer
19. Nate "Tiny" Archibald
20. Earl "the Pearl" Monroe
21. Reggie Miller
22. Tracy McGrady
23. Ray Allen
24. Dave Bing
25. David Thompson

Pistol Pete did get knocked out, happy Dash!

Wow, this was harder than it looked. I left off guys like DJ, CP3, Moncrief, Sharman, Lenny Wilkens, Dumars ect.

The group I bolded in the middle might be the toughest of the bunch to rank.

[WillC]

I'm definitely up for this. I feel quite strongly so look forward to joining in some good debates!

[Rose]

This is funny... Isiah Thomas's four season run from 1983-84 through 1986-87 is better than anything Chris Paul has done...

I...respectfully disagree. Because he had Dumars, and Microwave(while I realize they didn't share the floor together a lot), not to mention Tripucka(sp?) and Lambieer weren't slouches either and those two guards alone are better options than CP3 had in West, and Peja.

Although I do admit that zeke's pistons advancing farther in the playoffs does count for something.

[Wukillabeez78]

Add my name to the list, I will participate. Just make sure you decide on how you want to do this. Is the group you decide on going to come up with the lists privately and then after coming to a consensus post it or is it just going to be a free-for-all with us just posting our lists individually (like some have done in this thread)?

[Wukillabeez78]

I...respectfully disagree. Because he had Dumars, and Microwave(while I realize they didn't share the floor together a lot), not to mention Tripucka(sp?) and Lambieer weren't slouches either and those two guards alone are better options than CP3 had in West, and Peja.

Although I do admit that zeke's pistons advancing farther in the playoffs does count for something.

Not sure if you know that era very well. Tripucka was there but he was just a one-dimensional scorer (which is why they got rid of him later on). Laimbeer was definitely good. Dumars was only there for the last 2 of those seasons I posted and he only averaged 10 points a game his 1st two years. Vinnie Johnson was there but again he was just a complementary player who was only a scorer. The Pistons in those years were no more talented than the teams Paul has been at the helm of recently and they weren't going far in the playoffs at that point. West is a better scorer (both inside and outside) than anyone Isiah had back then. CP3 has played with good scorers and slashers like Ariza, Posey, Bonzi Wells, Peja in addition to a good young center (Chandler) who was athletic enough to go up and finish alley oops. In their early years both Isiah and Paul were surrounded with a bunch of complementary players. The difference is the Pistons continued to build and add players through the draft and trades while the Hornets are basically more concerned about saving money.

Isiah in those years was putting up incredible numbers and trying to carry the team all by himself because he didn't have enough help to make headway against the 76ers, Boston, Bucks (hell they couldn't even beat the Knicks who really only had Bernard King). I'd rank Tim Hardaway's 4 year stretch from 1990-91 through 1994-1995 as being more comparable to Paul than what Isiah did...

[ThaSwagg3r]

Here is my top 25 at the moment, maybe you guys can change my mind along the way...

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kobe
4. West
5. Oscar
6. Wade
7. Frazier
8. Isiah
9. Cousy
10. Drexler
11. Nash
12. Payton
13. Stockton
14. Kidd
15. Gervin
16. Iverson
17. Dennis Johnson
18. Archibald
19. Ray Allen
20. Dumars
21. Cp3
22. Greer
23. Sam Jones
24. Monroe
25. Moncrief

[rmt]

This is my list;

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Jerry West
5. Isiah Thomas
6. Oscar Robertson
7. George Gervin
8. Bob Cousy
9. Dwyane Wade
10. Clyde Drexler
11. Allen Iverson
12. Reggie Miller
13. John Stockton
14. Walt Frazier
15. Gary Payton
16. Ray Allen
17. Jason Kidd
18. Tracy McGrady
19. Pete Maravich
20. Steve Nash
21. Tiny Archibald
22. Vince Carter
23. Joe Dumars
24. Chauncey Billups
25. Chris Paul

I don't even think Reggie Miller belongs on that list, much less at #12 - above Stockton, Kidd and Nash - yikes!

[L.Kizzle]

I don't even think Reggie Miller belongs on that list, much less at #12 - above Stockton, Kidd and Nash - yikes!

Miller belongs on the list, just not at number 12. The lower half of 25 is about right. I had him at number 23.

[Odinn]

much less at #12 - above Stockton, Kidd and Nash - yikes!

He led his team 1 time to finals and forced to P-Jax's Shaq's Lakers to game6 and he forced Jordan's Bulls to game game7. It's pretty impressive IMO. But I also started to consider drop him off to 17-22 range. #12 is definetly too much for Reggie. You're right.

-----

Top 3 is obvious. Right?
1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Kobe

I don't see anything to discuss about it.

[alenleomessi]

pistol pete is the most underappreciated player on this forum
he basically changed the game and some of u dont have him as a top 25 guard