Scottie Pippen: Ultimate Defender

[97 bulls]

Whatever you say about me, can be said about you.

You're a pitiful Pip apologist.

I and others have love for him and give him props, but you make it a mission to overrate him and place him in categories which he doesn't belong in.

Aint you the same dope that said he was better than Magic?

Aint you that same dude that elevates Pip's rankings based on ONE season?

Aint you the same cat that dispels every and all comments made by Pip (himself), coaches, teammates, opponents when they say MJ basically molded Pip into the player that he is? these are on record by multiple people, both directly and indirectly.


Aint you the same buffoon that insinuated that he was better than Bird?

Yet I'm the one that shouldn't be taken serious here?

Now hold on here. What youre doing is taking my statements out of context. I dont base my stance on Pippen based on one season. I go ofc his career. A 6 time champ, 2 time Olympic gold medal winner, and a player who has one of the highest win %s in NBA history. Most of our debates center around whether or not Pippen was or wasnt a franchise played and great leader. You're gonna dismiss everything he did with Jordan so I can only center a rebuttal based on what he did without Jordan. So if you dont want me to talk about that one season, then stop trying to minimize his accomplishments.

I never said he was better than Magic Johnson, I said they were the same players as far as scoring. Neither had great jumpers, Both were strong in the post, and looked to get others involved than themselves. I did say Id take Pippen over Magic to start a franchise because theres no guarantee Im gonna be able to get Jabbar, Worthy, Cooper type players to go around him. And Magic was a front-runner. Im not sure how hed respond to playing on a bad team. I know what Pippen could do. In both situations. And based on accomplishments, I feel Magic should be ranked higher than Pippen


As far as Bird, I said their impact on the court, would be a wash in a series in which the 96 Bulls play the 86 Celtics. The stats bare it out. I never said he was betted than Bird.


With regards to Jordan 'creating' Pippen, I never disagreed with the notion that Jordan mentored him. I think saying he 'made' Pippen is ridiculous. The talent was obviously there. And all players can allude to another played or coach for their success. Truth be told, theyre styles are totally different.

I have rehased this information many times. Why don't you stop acting like Jordans Bitch and be a man and stop distorting what I state.

[97 bulls]

I also feel you and people like you are extreme hypocrites Andgar. You love trying to compare stats from across different eras like in this thread when you alluded ti Pippens and Jordans steals and blocks. But are quick to put info posted by Mings Foot as not being in context. Those number Jordan got in the 80s are inflated. If Pippen played his prime in 80s, his numbers would be higher as well.

Which brings me to another point I made about Pippen. I feel and have said if Pippen played in the 80s, even with Jordan his avgs.would hover around 24/9/7 yearly. A poster did respond by saying those were Larry Bird type numbers. And.my response I call it like I see it.

[hitmanyr2k]

With regards to Jordan 'creating' Pippen, I never disagreed with the notion that Jordan mentored him. I think saying he 'made' Pippen is ridiculous. The talent was obviously there. And all players can allude to another played or coach for their success. Truth be told, theyre styles are totally different.

I have rehased this information many times. Why don't you stop acting like Jordans Bitch and be a man and stop distorting what I state.

I've always hated this shit and I've always said Jordan didn't "make" Pippen. Pippen made Pippen. Playing with Jordan every day obviously had an effect but Pippen had to have the work ethic and talent to get better whether Jordan was there or not otherwise he's nothing but another Lamar Odom...a could've been.

Pippen was a good player during the first 3peat but while Jordan was gone he hit the weights and got bigger on his own. He developed a great low post-game on his own. He added the pull-up three on his own. He got more versatile and deadlier defensively on his own. Jordan wasn't there for any of that shit. MJ came back and found a completely different player which he acknowledged.

[Roundball_Rock]

I've always hated this shit and I've always said Jordan didn't "make" Pippen. Pippen made Pippen. Playing with Jordan every day obviously had an effect but Pippen had to have the work ethic and talent to get better whether Jordan was there or not otherwise he's nothing but another Lamar Odom...a could've been.

Pippen was a good player during the first 3peat but while Jordan was gone he hit the weights and got bigger on his own. He developed a great low post-game on his own. He added the pull-up three on his own. He got more versatile and deadlier defensively on his own. Jordan wasn't there for any of that shit. MJ came back and found a completely different player which he acknowledged.

Jordan fans are the only fan group--in any sport--who make such an absurd claim. That is a big reason why they are the worst fans in sports.

Jordan has not been able to "make" any player. He has been a joke in Washington and Charlotte. We all know how much MJ loves to win. If he had this magic power that only Mike has to mint a HOFer why has he not done so in Washington or Charlotte?

It is a shame MJ hasn't been able to have a winning season in the pros--as a GM, owner, or second-tier minor league baseball--without Scottie. No wonder MJ fans are so to this day about Pip.

[Leviathon1121]

Jordan fans are the only fan group--in any sport--who make such an absurd claim. That is a big reason why they are the worst fans in sports.

Jordan has not been able to "make" any player. He has been a joke in Washington and Charlotte. We all know how much MJ loves to win. If he had this magic power that only Mike has to mint a HOFer why has he not done so in Washington or Charlotte?

It is a shame MJ hasn't been able to have a winning season in the pros--as a GM, owner, or second-tier minor league baseball--without Scottie. No wonder MJ FAN are so to this day about Pip.

Fixed that for you, cause I can't for the life of me see more then one idiot saying anything like that in this thread, or anywhere else really. Don't let that stop your crusade though

[KOBE143]

In defense

Pippen >>>> MJ overrated defense and its not even close..

[NuggetsFan]

No wonder MJ fans are so to this day about Pip.

Well let's not get carried away. MJ is the consensus GOAT basketball player, heck his name gets alot of mentions when talking about the greatest sports player of all time. He's got 6 rings and won all 6 FMVP's. Got his own movie and has his own brand.

Maybe on a couple ISH threads MJ fans downplay Pippen or whatever but in reality if somebody is a MJ stan the last thing they're concerning themselves with is Scottie Pippen. Really it seems like the Pippen fans are the one's who are pissed, which I can understand. Jordan really did steal all the glory, shame how much individuals are pushed in a team sport. You'd think basketball was tennis the way fans/media pimp out individuals.

Of course you all could solve this problem by just uniting as Chicago Bull fans and not worrying yourself about Jordan/Pippen as individuals because well they were teammates

[Magic bird]

In defense

Pippen >>>> MJ overrated defense and its not even close..

This.

[97 bulls]

Well let's not get carried away. MJ is the consensus GOAT basketball player, heck his name gets alot of mentions when talking about the greatest sports player of all time. He's got 6 rings and won all 6 FMVP's. Got his own movie and has his own brand.

Maybe on a couple ISH threads MJ fans downplay Pippen or whatever but in reality if somebody is a MJ stan the last thing they're concerning themselves with is Scottie Pippen. Really it seems like the Pippen fans are the one's who are pissed, which I can understand. Jordan really did steal all the glory, shame how much individuals are pushed in a team sport. You'd think basketball was tennis the way fans/media pimp out individuals.

Of course you all could solve this problem by just uniting as Chicago Bull fans and not worrying yourself about Jordan/Pippen as individuals because well they were teammates

Thats the thing. Posters like Andgar, Leviathon, to name a few, arent Bulls fans theyre Jordan fans.

This was a great post that states my sentiments. We as fans dont talk about teams anymore. Instead of having a discussion about which team would win a seven game series between the Clippers and Heat, its who wins in a seven game series between Chris Paul and LeBron James. As if they would play one on one. Players get the same amount of credit in losses as in wins as long as they put up the stats.

[eliteballer]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJGGlFQKZk&t=2m18s

[Ne 1]

Jordan fans are the only fan group--in any sport--who make such an absurd claim. That is a big reason why they are the worst fans in sports.

Jordan has not been able to "make" any player. He has been a joke in Washington and Charlotte. We all know how much MJ loves to win. If he had this magic power that only Mike has to mint a HOFer why has he not done so in Washington or Charlotte?

It is a shame MJ hasn't been able to have a winning season in the pros--as a GM, owner, or second-tier minor league baseball--without Scottie. No wonder MJ fans are so to this day about Pip.

I don't believe people still believe this myth that Jordan "made" Pippen.

Scottie was a top 5 draft pick, and highly sought after talent (Chicago traded to get him from Seattle). He had his playmaking/ball handling skills from playing PG as a teenager, and he was already touted as a great defensive player coming out of college (averaged 3+ steals). He improved dramatically EVERY year he was in college, which shows his tremendous work ethic before he ever even met Mike (went from a team manager to a college star in like 4-5 years).

He sure as hell wasn't just some dime a dozen scrub who showed up in the NBA one day and Jordan decided to use his Midas touch to make him an MVP-caliber talent. I'm sure if Jordan had this mythical ability then he would have taken everyone under his wing and made something of them. By Pippen's rookie year, announcers around the league were already projecting him to be a superstar. By his second year he had improved into a solid second option and by his third he was an All-Star and one of the best "#2s" in the entire league. Either Jordan was a Godly teacher or maybe.....Pippen was just freaking talented. By the way, his improvement came at a time when Jordan wasn't even the vocal leader of the team (that came around 1990 from Grant's account). They had a segment about this in the '91 Pistons series and oddly enough, Grant named Corzine as the one providing leadership to guys like Pippen and himself in their first couple of years in the league. Pippen was one of the most physically talented players of his era, was unnaturally skilled for a guy his size and was showing tons of flashes of greatness early on in his rookie year. I'd say he would not only be fine without Jordan but maybe even better off (gets a chance to develop faster without a teammate taking nearly 30 shots a night, and maybe even win a ring on his own as he showed he was capable of leading a contending team in '94 and '00, because hey, as we all know on ISH, 1 ring as "the man" > 6 as a "#2"). Sure Jordan helped Scottie, but lets quit the outrageous "Jordan made Pippen" bullshit.

[NBASTATMAN]

I would say Kobe is the ultimate defender. he is able to stop his 4 teammates from scoring.

[eliteballer]

I don't believe people still believe this myth that Jordan "made" Pippen.

Scottie was a top 5 draft pick, and highly sought after talent (Chicago traded to get him from Seattle). He had his playmaking/ball handling skills from playing PG as a teenager, and he was already touted as a great defensive player coming out of college (averaged 3+ steals). He improved dramatically EVERY year he was in college, which shows his tremendous work ethic before he ever even met Mike (went from a team manager to a college star in like 4-5 years).

He sure as hell wasn't just some dime a dozen scrub who showed up in the NBA one day and Jordan decided to use his Midas touch to make him an MVP-caliber talent. I'm sure if Jordan had this mythical ability then he would have taken everyone under his wing and made something of them. By Pippen's rookie year, announcers around the league were already projecting him to be a superstar. By his second year he had improved into a solid second option and by his third he was an All-Star and one of the best "#2s" in the entire league. Either Jordan was a Godly teacher or maybe.....Pippen was just freaking talented. By the way, his improvement came at a time when Jordan wasn't even the vocal leader of the team (that came around 1990 from Grant's account). They had a segment about this in the '91 Pistons series and oddly enough, Grant named Corzine as the one providing leadership to guys like Pippen and himself in their first couple of years in the league. Pippen was one of the most physically talented players of his era, was unnaturally skilled for a guy his size and was showing tons of flashes of greatness early on in his rookie year. I'd say he would not only be fine without Jordan but maybe even better off (gets a chance to develop faster without a teammate taking nearly 30 shots a night, and maybe even win a ring on his own as he showed he was capable of leading a contending team in '94 and '00, because hey, as we all know on ISH, 1 ring as "the man" > 6 as a "#2"). Sure Jordan helped Scottie, but lets quit the outrageous "Jordan made Pippen" bullshit.

[Calabis]

In 1994 Pip averaged 22 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists,2.9 steals,shot 49% from the floor while leading the Bulls to 55 wins.....without Michael Jordan. Hakeem deserved it that year but that was definitely an MVP-level season from Pip.

And with Jordan in 1991 he avg 21/7/7 on 50%, so why are people acting like he played out of his freakin mind when MJ left?

[Calabis]

Thats funny, be cause Phil Jackson, the Bulls coach, called Pippen the Bulls defensive leader. I remember in an interview John Bach saying Jordan was better during the first threepeat only because he talked more trash. And I believe Tex Winter said Pippen was better. Which coaches are you talking about? Doug Collins?

And what makes Jordan a better defender skill-wise? Or instincts, or man? And Pippen was head ans shoulders betted than Jordan on help. But then again, look at the source, another Jordan fan

This is a BS statement