Just remember when comparing Lebron to Jordan

[AirBonner]

After LeBron left his teams they were lottery teams. After Jordan left they were title contenders.

[3ball]

.
We've never seen how a team would perform without Lebron because each time he jumped ship, half the team ALSO left, or the team had injuries and was past their prime...


2011 Cavs

They didn't just lose Lebron - they lost other 2 starters (Shaq, Mo Williams) and 3 more key players (Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - [COLOR="Navy"]these guys scored a combined 52 ppg, which is more than half the Cavs points[/COLOR].

So it's ludicrous to disregard the 52 ppg of these guys, and act like Lebron's 30 ppg was the difference in 2011..

2015 Heat

In 2014, the Heat's RS record would've placed them at the 4-6 seed out West (3-way tie for the 4-seed).. They were easily the Spurs' worst opponent in those playoffs, since they had a 15-point disadvantage in ORtg against the Spurs (a record), compared to only 3 points, 6 points and 8 points for Mavs, OKC and Blazers, respectively.

Accordingly, the 2014 Heat were a 1st or 2nd Round team out West that fell to a lottery team in 2015 (due to injuries to Bosh/Wade).. The only reason their drop-off seems bigger is because they played in a worst-ever Eastern Conference.

More importantly - Bosh and Wade's prime was over by the time Lebron left - he used up their primes, and then jumped ship like a bitch..

[AirBonner]

.
We've never seen how a team would perform without Lebron because each time he jumped ship, half the team ALSO left, or the team had injuries and was past their prime...


2011 Cavs

They didn't just lose Lebron - they lost other 2 starters (Shaq, Mo Williams) and 3 more key players (Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - [COLOR="Navy"]these guys scored a combined 52 ppg, which is more than half the Cavs points[/COLOR].

So it's ludicrous to disregard the 52 ppg of these guys, and act like Lebron's 30 ppg was the difference in 2011..

2015 Heat

In 2014, the Heat's RS record would've placed them at the 4-6 seed out West (3-way tie for the 4-seed).. They were easily the Spurs' worst opponent in those playoffs, since they had a 15-point disadvantage in ORtg against the Spurs (a record), compared to only 3 points, 6 points and 8 points for Mavs, OKC and Blazers, respectively.

Accordingly, the 2014 Heat were a 1st or 2nd Round team out West that fell to a lottery team in 2015 (due to injuries to Bosh/Wade).. The only reason their drop-off seems bigger is because they played in a worst-ever Eastern Conference.

More importantly - Bosh and Wade's prime was over by the time Lebron left - he used up their primes, and then jumped ship like a bitch..

Please. This is a thread for facts only.

[3ball]

when we comparing Lebron to Jordan

There is no comparison - Jordan scored 5 more ppg in the playoffs and 7 more ppg in Finals, on better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg).

There's never been a player that averaged 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring and efficiency edge is worth more than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) 2.5 defensive rebound edge (with less offensive rebounds).

Ultimately, Jordan's goat scoring lead, team-leading passing, and best-ever defense at his position is the largest load ever carried.

[riseagainst]

.
We've never seen how a team would perform without Lebron because each time he jumped ship, half the team ALSO left, or the team had injuries and was past their prime...


2011 Cavs

They didn't just lose Lebron - they lost other 2 starters (Shaq, Mo Williams) and 3 more key players (Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - [COLOR="Navy"]these guys scored a combined 52 ppg, which is more than half the Cavs points[/COLOR].

So it's ludicrous to disregard the 52 ppg of these guys, and act like Lebron's 30 ppg was the difference in 2011..

2015 Heat

In 2014, the Heat's RS record would've placed them at the 4-6 seed out West (3-way tie for the 4-seed).. They were easily the Spurs' worst opponent in those playoffs, since they had a 15-point disadvantage in ORtg against the Spurs (a record), compared to only 3 points, 6 points and 8 points for Mavs, OKC and Blazers, respectively.

Accordingly, the 2014 Heat were a 1st or 2nd Round team out West that fell to a lottery team in 2015 (due to injuries to Bosh/Wade).. The only reason their drop-off seems bigger is because they played in a worst-ever Eastern Conference.

More importantly - Bosh and Wade's prime was over by the time Lebron left - he used up their primes, and then jumped ship like a bitch..

OP got destroyed in 1st reply.

[AirBonner]

There is no comparison - Jordan scored 5 more ppg in the playoffs and 7 more ppg in Finals, on better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg).

There's never been a player that averaged 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring and efficiency edge is worth more than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) 2.5 defensive rebound edge (with less offensive rebounds).

Jordan had zero success until Pippen was on board. Bron makes his teammates better (JR Smith) and can adapt to many different players and still succeed.

[BeastMode24]

heat have done just fine without bron

[AirBonner]

heat have done just fine without bron

They had to go to the lottery just to recover. I remember threads on here saying they would still be a 50+ win team

[3ball]

Jordan had zero success until Pippen was on board.

Under Jordan's watch, Pippen went from a soft, 7 ppg rookie to a hardened HOF - indeed, Jordan built Pippen and made him a man:

JERRY KRAUSE, Bulls GM:

[INDENT][indent][I]

[SpaceJam]

3ball you've done it again

[AirBonner]

[QUOTE=3ball]Under Jordan's watch, Pippen went from a soft, 7 ppg rookie to a hardened HOF - indeed, Jordan built Pippen and made him a man:

JERRY KRAUSE, Bulls GM:

[INDENT][indent][I]

[Steven Kerry]

After LeBron left his teams they were lottery teams. After Jordan left they were title contenders.

99 Bulls were title contenders? News to me.

[AirBonner]

Jordan NEEDED an all time GOAT team to win. Bron last year dragged a bunch of scrubs to the finals and took arguably the GOAT team of the past 10 years to 6 games.

[Indian guy]

Cleveland in 2011 had the worst record in the league even prior to their injury issues. Just look it up. They were in the midst of their record-setting losing streak when Varejao and 'Mo Williams went down. Completely disingenuous to pretend injuries is what led to their downfall. They had already started to suck on epic levels even with the team fully healthy. And yes, they did lose Shaq, Big Z and West in the offseason, but gained Jamison, Powe and Sessions. And mind you, Shaq and Big Z both retired after 2011. They were done.

Miami, with the exact same roster + valuable additions(Deng, Dragic, Whiteside) that went to the 2014 NBA Finals, couldn't even make the freaking playoffs in the supposed "worst conference ever" last season. They didn't have a .500 record even when both Wade and Bosh played, for those pointing at Bosh's injury for the reason why they missed the playoffs. Pat Riley basically had to do a complete roster overhaul sans Wade for them to have the current season that they did.

[Chokefree]

Jordan NEEDED an all time GOAT team to win. Bron last year dragged a bunch of scrubs to the finals and took arguably the GOAT team of the past 10 years to 6 games.

Explain why he couldn't win on his own until he joined Wade and Bosh? And he hasn't won shit without them since? LOL you fvcking dumbshit