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Land o' Lakes
Re: Guys like Iggy, Pippen, Odom, Manu are real sidekicks
Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents
Why are y'all nikka's giving this dude serious answers By responding to such obvious troll threads, you only give him motivation to continue making them
This, nearly all the threads on this godforsaken site are his or his alts.
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Lol
Re: Guys like Iggy, Pippen, Odom, Manu are real sidekicks
Originally Posted by sammichoffate
This, nearly all the threads on this godforsaken site are his or his alts.
This isn’t dubeta/Dray n Klay/etc this is Starface/akrazotile
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Guys like Iggy, Pippen, Odom, Manu are real sidekicks
Why can't people understand that if Lebron doesn't fit with a certain player, that's HIS fault for not having the game to fit with them?.. It's a knock that he's only elite with a live dribble (ball-dominance), and therefore only fits well with spot-up shooters.
Of course, people will say "who else would you rather have the ball?"
The answer is "anyone" because players actually control the game more by FINISHING many possessions, thereby personally controlling the result, aka being the judge, jury, and executioner of the possession...
Look at MJ - he got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time... similarly, when Curry is at his best, he controls the game by FINISHING many possessions
In addition to controlling the game more, finishing possessions lets teammates pass you the ball, which helps their playmaking - Wade or Kyrie can play to their strength as ball-handlers, or Bosh/Love can be real threats before letting lebron "close" the possession
Ultimately, this skill deficit (Lebron's lack of play-finishing off-ball) puts a ceiling on his teams, since only shooters excel alongside his dribbling, while also limiting Lebron's ability to control possessions/games
Being able to control games by handling the rock AND selectively finishing possessions when needed (and it might be needed a lot) controls games better than only being the dribbler - it controls games better while also allowing a superior brand where everyone gets to move the ball, rather than 1 guy dribbling.. this skill gap (dribbling vs a mix of dribbling and finishing) is the difference between 3/9 and 6/6
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NBA Superstar
Re: Guys like Iggy, Pippen, Odom, Manu are real sidekicks
Originally Posted by 3ball
Why can't people understand that if Lebron doesn't fit with a certain player, that's HIS fault for not having the game to fit with them?.. It's a knock that he's only elite with a live dribble (ball-dominance), and therefore only fits well with spot-up shooters.
Of course, people will say "who else would you rather have the ball?"
The answer is "anyone" because players actually control the game more by FINISHING many possessions, thereby personally controlling the result, aka being the judge, jury, and executioner of the possession...
Look at MJ - he got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time... similarly, when Curry is at his best, he controls the game by FINISHING many possessions
In addition to controlling the game more, finishing possessions lets teammates pass you the ball, which helps their playmaking - Wade or Kyrie can play to their strength as ball-handlers, or Bosh/Love can be real threats before letting lebron "close" the possession
Ultimately, this skill deficit (Lebron's lack of play-finishing off-ball) puts a ceiling on his teams, since only shooters excel alongside his dribbling, while also limiting Lebron's ability to control possessions/games
Being able to control games by handling the rock AND selectively finishing possessions when needed (and it might be needed a lot) controls games better than only being the dribbler - it controls games better while also allowing a superior brand where everyone gets to move the ball, rather than 1 guy dribbling.. this skill gap (dribbling vs a mix of dribbling and finishing) is the difference between 3/9 and 6/6
You're missing the point completely.
LeHung James played the hardest run of Finals opponents in NBA history, and he's got more titles than Hakeem. More FMVPs than Kobe. Greater numbers than Jordan.
Nobody is making excuses. Lebron doesnt NEED to make excuses. He HAS achieved. His accolades have been EARNED, NOT GIVEN.
But the point is he did all of this with a sub-optimal cast of players, compared to what other Top 14 players had to work with. By far sub-optimal. And against the greatest series of Finals opponents anyone has ever faced.
Get it??
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Guys like Iggy, Pippen, Odom, Manu are real sidekicks
Why can't people understand that if Lebron doesn't fit with a certain player, that's HIS fault for not having the game to fit with them?.. It's a knock that he's only elite with a live dribble (ball-dominance), and therefore only fits well with spot-up shooters.
Of course, people will say "who else would you rather have the ball?"
The answer is "anyone" because players actually control the game more by FINISHING many possessions, thereby personally controlling the result, aka being the judge, jury, and executioner of the possession...
Look at MJ - he got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time... similarly, when Curry is at his best, he controls the game by FINISHING many possessions
In addition to controlling the game more, finishing possessions lets teammates pass you the ball, which helps their playmaking - Wade or Kyrie can play to their strength as ball-handlers, or Bosh/Love can be real threats before letting lebron "close" the possession
Ultimately, this skill deficit (Lebron's lack of play-finishing off-ball) puts a ceiling on his teams, since only shooters excel alongside his dribbling, while also limiting Lebron's ability to control possessions/games
Being able to control games by handling the rock AND selectively finishing possessions when needed (and it might be needed a lot) controls games better than only being the dribbler - it controls games better while also allowing a superior brand where everyone gets to move the ball, rather than 1 guy dribbling.. this skill gap (dribbling vs a mix of dribbling and finishing) is the difference between 3/9 and 6/6
For example, Pippen is a non-shooting ball-handler - the worst fit for Lebron's dribble skillset - so lebron would have zero rings with pip and it's unlikely pip develops into a HOF.
.
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NBA Superstar
Re: Guys like Iggy, Pippen, Odom, Manu are real sidekicks
You're missing the point completely.
LeHung James played the hardest run of Finals opponents in NBA history, and he's got more titles than Hakeem. More FMVPs than Kobe. Greater numbers than Jordan.
Nobody is making excuses. Lebron doesnt NEED to make excuses. He HAS achieved. His accolades have been EARNED, NOT GIVEN.
But the point is he did all of this with a sub-optimal cast of players, compared to what other Top 14 players had to work with. By far sub-optimal. And against the greatest series of Finals opponents anyone has ever faced.
Get it??
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Guys like Iggy, Pippen, Odom, Manu are real sidekicks
Originally Posted by FultzNationRISE
But the point is he did all of this [COLOR="DarkRed"]with a sub-optimal cast of players[/COLOR],
Because his game is suboptimal and incomplete
he's only elite on-ball, and therefore only fits well with spot-up shooters.
Otoh, guys like Curry, MJ, and Kobe never had suboptimal casts because they were dominant on-ball and off-ball, so they fit with everyone
Originally Posted by FultzNationRISE
[COLOR="DarkRed"]His accolades have been EARNED, NOT GIVEN[/COLOR]
He never won organically because his on-ball skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or teams... So he needed to team-hop for ready made stars and teams - his dribble-only skillset forces him to team-hop
Originally Posted by FultzNationRISE
Nobody is making excuses.
[COLOR="DarkRed"]His accolades have been EARNED, NOT GIVEN[/COLOR]
Which path is harder:
1) Obtaining contender and favorite status by developing teammates, teamwork, and brand over numerous years
2) Landing on teams favored to win the Finals in Year 1 of existence
Indeed, Lebron's 2011 and 2015 teams were pre-season and pre-playoffs favorites to win the championship
Originally Posted by FultzNationRISE
he's got more titles than Hakeem. More FMVPs than Kobe.
Those guys would destroy Lebron in titles if they team-hopped every few years to play with the hottest studs in the league like Lebron did
You lebron fans are a joke when you cite his ring count, as if any tom, dick, or harry wouldn't win rings but by teaming up with all the best players in the league...
Originally Posted by FultzNationRISE
[COLOR="DarkRed"]Greater numbers than Jordan.[/COLOR]
Career totals measure longevity, not DEGREE of domination...
Per game stats measure degree of domination, and MJ did more per game, so his stats are superior
MJ is the all-time leader in PPG and efficiency rating - Lebron has no statistical argument that is better
Originally Posted by FultzNationRISE
LeHung James played the hardest run of Finals opponents in NBA history
Cut the crap
Everyone knows that his "not 6, not 7" Heat had the most talent in the league from 2011-2014, and his 2016 Cavs saw their 2nd option demolish the Warriors' 1st option...
In other words, Lebron had Big 3 superteams and can't complain about facing talent deficits - it's his opponents that can complain about facing talent deficits to his colluded, stacked deck teams
Ultimately, Lebron had his own Big 3's and only faced a talent deficit in 07', 15', and 18'...
17' is debatable and the goat is supposed to make up for differences anyway - the fact that he never did shows he isn't the goat.. the only talent deficit he overcame was the 2007 ECF, and MJ overcame much bigger talent deficits then that - let me know if you need me to specify with all the relevant stats and proof
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ISH vigilant
Re: Guys like Iggy, Pippen, Odom, Manu are real sidekicks
Who is a better sidekick?
2011 Lebron or prime Manu?
Anyone?
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Administrator
Re: Guys like Iggy, Pippen, Odom, Manu are real sidekicks
A big test with this elite sidekick stuff is if the team had a third best player that was close to the second... or if there was a huge dropoff after that number two guy
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