Why do people base how good/GOAT a player is by the amount of rings?

[3ball]

those 1990s Bulls were composed well. Even if they weren't the most talented bunch, they complemented Jordan and each other very well.

Fair?

No, not fair.. Pippen needed to handle the ball a decent amount to play his best - accordingly, Jordan's ability to play off-ball complimented PIPPEN, not the other way around.. Jordan's goat ability both off-ball and on-ball allowed Pippen to play to capacity.

Otoh, we know Lebron's ball-dominance clashed with Wade's ball-dominance - it's a well-known statistical fact that the Heat were a worse team when both were on the floor together, rather than just one of them.. Otoh, Jordan's off-ball ability would've allowed Wade to play to capacity just like it did with Pippen.

Furthermore, Lebron's supporting casts complimented him perfectly - all his teams had a bevy of 3-point shooters to compliment his ball-dominance and drive-and-kick.

But the issue is whether Lebron's style results in teams that play good enough BASKETBALL to win at the highest level and beat the best teams... Clearly, his ball-dominant style often DOESN'T result in the best basketball - this year will be yet another example (2/7), even though he has all the talent any #1 option could ever ask for.

[DrainMD]

Because in the sport of basketball, one player can have a huge impact on the outcome of games. It is unlike any other team sport. If history proved that championship winning teams were comprised of solid role players without stars, titles would be downgraded. But that simply isn't the case. Almost every team that won a title was led by an all-time great or superstar. Yes, there are your exceptions like the Sonics in 1979 and Pistons 2004 but almost every time, this holds true.

It's just the way it is. It's a sport where a transcendent talent can literally impose his will on the game. That's why the best of all time need to be judged by rings. Not the be all, end all but a huge criteria in my book.

I look at it a different way, most championships are lead by a superstar talent, or a player that plays at a superstar level even if its just for the playoff run. But most championship teams are well built teams that rely on solid role players.
I think Iverson is the most recent time a player went the farthest with little help. Maybe Lebron in 07, either way great players need good players to win.

A rings only criteria is definitely unfair.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Not worth wasting the time to read your crap.

Every player Jordan ever played with was shit and he was the only reason why they ever managed to win a game. He could have gone 1v5 and won against any NBA team. Basically every post you've ever made on Jordan and his teammates.

[3ball]

Not worth wasting the time to read your crap.

Every player Jordan ever played with was shit and he was the only reason why they ever managed to win a game. He could have gone 1v5 and won against any NBA team. Basically every post you've ever made on Jordan and his teammates.

Wow... apparently, i AM convincing after all.

Also, you're dumb for thinking Lebron had nothing to do with the Heat's blowout in 2014 Finals.

If he held Kawhi to the same 11 ppg that DAL and OKC did, the Heat would've still lost, but the series would've been competitive just like the DAL and OKC series were.

And if Lebron can play that defense AND be more aggressive offensively by doubling his shot attempts like he did in 2015 Finals (which won 2 games with worse supporting cast against better team), the Heat WIN.

[Hey Yo]

Wow... apparently, i AM convincing after all.

Also, you're dumb for thinking Lebron had nothing to do with the Heat's blowout in 2014 Finals.

If he held Kawhi to the same 11 ppg that DAL and OKC did, the Heat would've still lost, but the series would've been competitive just like the DAL and OKC series were.

And if Lebron can play that defense AND be more aggressive offensively by doubling his shot attempts like he did in 2015 Finals (which won 2 games with worse supporting cast against better team), the Heat WIN.

Nobody on OKC or Dallas was making their 4th straight Finals appearance or looking to lead the team in MP, pts, rebounds and assists for the 3rd consecutive Finals

Bullshit....like I said before, if James plays as aggressive on offense in 2014 and the Heat lose, you would say he ignored superstar Wade, 10x all-star Bosh and the rest of the team in order to pad his stats.

You're bullshit and if's just go around in circles for whatever criteria it needs to fit.

[3ball]

Nobody on OKC or Dallas was making their 4th straight Finals appearance or looking to lead the team in MP, pts, rebounds and assists for the 3rd consecutive Finals

Bullshit....like I said before, if James plays as aggressive on offense in 2014 and the Heat lose, you would say he ignored superstar Wade, 10x all-star Bosh and the rest of the team in order to pad his stats.

You're bullshit and if's just go around in circles for whatever criteria it needs to fit.

No "ifs" needed... Just play much better defense and be far more aggressive offensively.

Lebron could've played far better defensively and held Kawhi to 11 ppg like DAL and OKC did (and had a similarly competitive series, rather than a massacre), and he could've been far more aggressive offensively by doubling his shot attempts like he did in 2015 Finals (where he won 2 games with weaker supporting cast against a better team).

Similarly - in 2015, he showed the necessary offensive aggression (which won 2 games), but he failed defensively - if he plays better defense so Iggy is the role player he IS, then the Cavs could've won.

[Hey Yo]

If he held Kawhi to the same 11 ppg that DAL and OKC did, the Heat would've still lost, but the series would've been competitive just like the DAL and OKC series were..

Nobody on OKC or Dallas was making their 4th straight Finals appearance or looking to lead the team in MP, pts, rebounds and assists for the 3rd consecutive Finals

Similarly - in 2015, he showed the necessary offensive aggression (which won 2 games), but he failed defensively - if he plays better defense so Iggy is the role player he IS, then the Cavs could've won.

Bullshit....like I said before, if James plays as aggressive on offense in 2014 and the Heat lose, you would say he ignored superstar Wade, 10x all-star Bosh and the rest of the team in order to pad his stats.

You're bullshit and if's just go around in circles for whatever criteria it needs to fit.

[Sarcastic]

If Lebron was 6/6, wouldn't he have a case for GOAT?


This thread is just Lebron nut huggers trying to excuse 2/6.

[sdot_thadon]

If Lebron was 6/6, wouldn't he have a case for GOAT?


This thread is just Lebron nut huggers trying to excuse 2/6.

He'd have a case that basically highlights the question in the op. Winning those 4 series don't automatically make him a better player. He's good enough for the debates already.

And 6/6 wouldn't make him goat, the CONTEXT would make him goat:

Won in 07 with literally no help, the definition of carrying a team. Against the spurs dynasty no less.

Won in 15 with no help, 2nd and 3rd options lost to injury. basically carrying an entirely different squad against another all time great team, 8 years later.

Along the way a 5 peat occurs, during that 5 peat he goes back to back with 2 different franchises. Just because of the sheer degree of difficulty.....

That would be worthy of goat, not just the count. Funniest thing is this is what you 2/6 guys ask and expect of Lebron. You have unflappable faith, sounds like you guys believe he's the goat.