Almost every single champion since 1980 has had......

[secund2nun]

*12-13 Miami-----Bosh at Center
*11 Dallas-------- Tyson Chandler
*09 Lakers--------Gasol, Bynum, and Odom
*08 Celtics------- KG (PF, but elite post defender and great rebounder)
*07 Spurs--------Duncan
*06 Heat---------Shaq
*05 Spurs--------Duncan
*04 Pistons-------Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace
*03 Spurs--------Duncan
*00-02 Lakers----Shaq
*99 Spurs--------Duncan/Robinson
*96-98 Bulls------Dennis Rodman (great post defender and rebounder)
*94-95 Rockets---Hakeem
*90-93 Bulls------Horace Grant
*89-90 Pistons---Bill Laimbeer and Dennis Rodman
*87-88 Lakers----Kareem/AC Green
*86 Celtics-------Robert Parish/Kevin McHale
*85 Lakers-------Kareem
*84 Celtics------Robert Parish/Kevin McHale
*83 76ers-------Moses Malone
*82 Lakers------Kareem
*81 Celtics------Robert Parish/Kevin McHale
*80 Lakers------Kareem

Above is a list of NBA champions since 1980. Next to them I have listed their centers or the PF/C they have on the roster. Every single one of them has a center that provides good post defense and/or good rebounding and/or good post scoring (usually 2 out of the 3 categories, 3 out of 3 in some cases) or a PF/C like KG or Duncan that can defend centers in the paint very well and rebound well which is the same thing.

12-13 Miami is the only exception as they have a hole at center so they have a hole at post defense, rebounding, and post offense, but they have a rare wing talent like Lebron.

Every single one of those rosters has at least 1 all star C or PF/C like KG that can provide good post defense/rebounding like a center can except for Miami

Ever further of those champions every single one of those rosters has at least 1 multiple time all star center or PF/C except for:

*90-93 Bulls (Horace Grant=1 time all star)
*12-13 Miami (Bosh is a stretch PF and is not an all star caliber center that can lock down the paint)
*2011 Dallas (Chandler is a 1 time all star).

But Horace Grant was a multiple time all defensive player, a peak at 14-10-3.5 and 1 time all star and they had MJ/Pippen on the wing plus Phil as coach....and Chandler is a DPOY, has been on multiple all defensive teams, and 1 all star. Both were certainly good centers.


And this is not the case of a washed up former all star playing on the team's bench to aid that stat. Every single champion since 1980 has had their C or PF/C become an all star in the same year they won the title except for 12-13 Miami, 90-93 and 96-98 Chicago, 2011 Dallas, and 1989 Pistons. But the 89 Detroit front court of Rodman and Lambier was certainly a very good front court in 89 and Rodman won the DPOY the next season , Chandler was a good center in 2011 and won DPOY the next season, Rodman was still a great post defender/rebounder from 96-98, and Grant was a good center from 90-93 and became an all star in 94.

Of all of the champions from 1980 the weakest C or PF/C core from these teams would be 2012-2013 Miami with Bosh/Birdman playing center (by far weakest), then 90-93 Chicago with Horace Grant, then 2011 Dallas with Tyson Chandler. Every other C or PF/C core from those title teams was much better than Bosh at center, Chandler, and Grant...which is crazy because Chandler is an all star DPOY center and Grant was an all star multiple time all defensive center.

All of those title teams have holes at various different positions like PG, SG, SF but none of them except 12-13 Miami have a hole at either C or a rebounding post defending PF if they have no center (stretch PF does not count as they can't provide the defense/rebounding of a center). The weakest centers or PF/C from the last 34 champs were prime Chris Bosh at center, a prime 1 time all star multiple all defensive team Horace Grant, and a prime 1 time all star DPOY Tyson Chandler. That is crazy. Look at the weakest SGs, PGs, and SFs from those teams and you will find many scrubs.

Center or PF/C is the most important position. Post defense and rebounding are the cornerstones of success. Small ball is garbage.

But here we have many people thinking the big man is dying and therefore post defense, rebounding, and post offense is irrelevant (though if you have good efficient wing scorers you don't need much post scoring but you still need the post defense/rebounding). People are obsessed with building around guards and drool over some chucker wing player over a quality big men. Ignoring salary and age I bet many people would pick Monta Ellis over Tyson Chandler and that is insane.

[LongLiveTheKing]

Like Charles Barkley said the only way you'll win without a great post presence is if you have Lebron.

[Fire Colangelo]

lebron can guard 1-5 no need for a center.

[russwest0]

WE COMIN FOR YOU

[LeGOAT]

Bosh is no where near a real center.

[IncarceratedBob]

If LeBron played center he would already be the GOAT center

[D.J.]

Rim protection has never, and will never change. You need a good defensive big man to go far. Even the Heat have Birdman off the bench(even if in limited minutes). The only difference I would say is today's 4s are more like 4-5 combos(much like today's PGs are combo guards).

The big man is dying in a sense as many solid defensive bigs are 4-5 combos and true centers are average players, but the big man is also needed because playoff basketball is a completely different type of game and you need the good defensive center(even if non-existent on offense) to clog the paint and keep the ball on the perimeter.

[MadSolar]

Like Charles Barkley said the only way you'll win without a great post presence is if you have Lebron.

Then what happened in Cleaveland? How do you Heat fans... no I'm sorry Lebron fans not appreciate Chris Boshs game. He's a big guy who can shoot and make threes and his mid range jump shots are pretty nice too. Besides we seen Lebron in cleveland with a big man like shaq do together. A big man that's a low post presence will disrupt Lebrons game.

[LongLiveTheKing]

Then what happened in Cleaveland? How do you Heat fans... no I'm sorry Lebron fans not appreciate Chris Boshs game. He's a big guy who can shoot and make threes and his mid range jump shots are pretty nice too. Besides we seen Lebron in cleveland with a big man like shaq do together. A big man that's a low post presence will disrupt Lebrons game.

I love Chris Bosh I'm not dissing him. Just saying what Barkley said.

[secund2nun]

Then what happened in Cleaveland? How do you Heat fans... no I'm sorry Lebron fans not appreciate Chris Boshs game. He's a big guy who can shoot and make threes and his mid range jump shots are pretty nice too. Besides we seen Lebron in cleveland with a big man like shaq do together. A big man that's a low post presence will disrupt Lebrons game.

What happened in Cleveland? Cleveland had a terrible roster. There is a reason they won 18 games after Lebron left with basically the same team as the year before minus Lebron. Also 38 year old can barely move Shaq was not a good player

I like Bosh, but he is no center. He is playing out of place. He is purely a PF. Riley has done a poor job filling around the big 3. A center is so important. Rim protection and rebounding from a big man does NOT interfere with Lebron and having a post scorer to dumb the ball off to would aid Lebron on offense.

[tpols]

What happened in Cleveland? Cleveland had a terrible roster. There is a reason they won 18 games after Lebron left with basically the same team as the year before minus Lebron. Also 38 year old can barely move Shaq was not a good player

I like Bosh, but he is no center. He is playing out of place. He is purely a PF. Riley has done a poor job filling around the big 3. A center is so important. Rim protection and rebounding from a big man does NOT interfere with Lebron and having a post scorer to dumb the ball off to would aid Lebron on offense.

Cleveland consistently from 08 to 10 had top defensive and rebounding frontcourts.. much better than what current miami has. so going by your theory lebrons help back then was better than his help now.. unless you want to admit there are other components to basketball.


For the bold, thats silly because ever since Bosh has come to Miami, his game has moved further and further out to the perimeter. Lebron has never played with a great low post scorer that draws doubles but in theory it wouldnt help him because it would clog the lane and force him to take jumpers where he is currently terrible at.

Theres a reason when Bosh was told to camp the 3 pt line against Indy.. to draw hibbert out and clear the lane. Theres a reason the spurs pack the paint strategy worked. Clogging the paint is a no-no for lebrons game.

[oarabbus]

Very good thread OP droppin truth. You MUST have a good big man, with very few exceptions to go all the way.

[D.J.]

Very good thread OP droppin truth. You MUST have a good big man, with very few exceptions to go all the way.

Good defensively anyway. Tyson Chandler and Kendrick Perkins certainly were not talented offensive players, but man could they protect that rim.

[secund2nun]

Cleveland consistently from 08 to 10 had top defensive and rebounding frontcourts.. much better than what current miami has. so going by your theory lebrons help back then was better than his help now.. unless you want to admit there are other components to basketball.


For the bold, thats silly because ever since Bosh has come to Miami, his game has moved further and further out to the perimeter. Lebron has never played with a great low post scorer that draws doubles but in theory it wouldnt help him because it would clog the lane and force him to take jumpers where he is currently terrible at.

Theres a reason when Bosh was told to camp the 3 pt line against Indy.. to draw hibbert out and clear the lane. Theres a reason the spurs pack the paint strategy worked. Clogging the paint is a no-no for lebrons game.

At no point did I ever say center or PF/C is the only component of basketball. It's crazy for anyone to suggest there is only one component to the game. I said it is the most important component, which it is. Cleveland did have a better center rotation than Miami, yes. But Cleveland's front court provided very little post scoring and the wing talent on the team was very weak. And while Cleveland's center rotation was better than Miami's (it's hard not to be), it wasn't by any means a great center core. Andy was nowhere as good back then as he is now (when healthy).

Big Z was useless by the time the contending years rolled around and a really bad defender against the pick and roll. Also while Andy was a solid defender, he wasn't exactly Dikembe Mutombo. Remember how badly Dwight Howard abused the Cleveland front court in the 2009 ECF? He looked like Hakeem in that series and Cleveland was throwing double teams on him all series long. Their front court could not stop Dwight. KG abused Cleveland in the 08 playoffs as well.

Bosh can still provide the stretch ability as a PF, which is where he fits best. Roy Hibbert is an average offensive center but looks like prime Shaq against Miami because Miami has no centers. If Miami had an average center Hibbert would look normal and score a lot less, Miami would not get badly rebounded, and Miami would beat Indy in 6 or less. Also Miami would get a lot more 2nd chance opportunities because of offensive rebounding and they would prevent 2nd chance opportunities because of better defensive rebounding. Poor Miami post defense and poor rebounding is why Indy matches up so well against Miami.

[Myth]

OP, are you really surprised that every championship team is rounded out well enough to have a good post player or 2? I bet you could do the same thing with the guard positions.

12-13 Wade
11 Kidd/Terry
09-10 Kobe
08 Rondo/Allen
07 Parker/Manu
06 Wade
05 Parker/Manu
04 Billups/Rip
03 Parker/Manu
00-02 Kobe
99 Avery/Elliot/Ellie
96-98 Jordan
95 Drexler
94 Maxwell/Kenny/Ellie
91-93 Jordan
89-90 Thomas/Dumars

And so on.