Shaq & Kobe: First 3 Rounds 3-Peat Stats

[jacobgoindum]

Kobe was Pippen to Shaq's Jordan.

So a player that leads his team in Points and Assists up to the Finals 2 times ('01 and '02) is a Pippen?

[D-Wade316]

Kobe's 2nd best playoff run = 2001

[32Dayz]

So a player that leads his team in Points and Assists up to the Finals 2 times ('01 and '02) is a Pippen?

Shaq is a Center and Kobe is a SG its not really a surprise that he would have more Assists.

Kobe leading the team in points by a very small margin means little to nothing when the opposing teams are focusing their defenses on stopping Shaq and he was still producing practically the same Volume as Kobe on far higher efficiency.

The difference in overall Production in 00 and 02 was just as large as the difference most years between Jordan and Pippen. Even in 01 the gap was still very large.

Not to mention Shaq was the teams defensive anchor and was 10x more impactful on that end of the floor.

Sorry but Kobe was never even remotely close to Shaq in terms of Production and Impact on that team or in overall contribution.

I'm not trying to put down Kobe but actually thinking his impact/production and contributions to the 01 and 02 lakers were anywhere close to Prime Shaqs is 100% retarded.

Also pretending that the Finals aren't a legitimate playoff series because your favorite player happened to play bad or play worse then another player on the same team is silly.

[jacobgoindum]

Shaq is a Center and Kobe is a SG its not really a surprise that he would have more Assists.

Kobe leading the team in points by a very small margin means little to nothing when the opposing teams are focusing their defenses on stopping Shaq and he was still producing practically the same Volume as Kobe on far higher efficiency.

The difference in overall Production in 00 and 02 was just as large as the difference most years between Jordan and Pippen. Even in 01 the gap was still very large.

Not to mention Shaq was the teams defensive anchor and was 10x more impactful on that end of the floor.

Sorry but Kobe was never even remotely close to Shaq in terms of Production and Impact on that team or in overall contribution.

I'm not trying to put down Kobe but actually thinking his impact/production and contributions to the 01 and 02 lakers were anywhere close to Prime Shaqs is 100% retarded.

Also pretending that the Finals aren't a legitimate playoff series because your favorite player happened to play bad or play worse then another player on the same team is silly.

Leading the team points and assists through the First 3 rounds of the '01 and '02 playoffs is very impactful and there pretty close, and even when you factor in finals play Kobe is not that far away
and I never said that the Finals dont matter or isn't legitimate

Saying that the gap between Shaq and Kobe is the same gap as Jordan and Pippen is false, It was like a Kareem and Magic tandem in '01 and '02, of course Shaq was the better player though because of how they played in the Finals.

[32Dayz]

Leading the team points and assists through the First 3 rounds of the '01 and '02 playoffs is very impactful and there pretty close, and even when you factor in finals play Kobe is not that far away
and I never said that the Finals dont matter or isn't legitimate

Saying that the gap between Shaq and Kobe is the same gap as Jordan and Pippen is false, It was like a Kareem and Magic tandem in '01 and '02, of course Shaq was the better player though because of how they played in the Finals.

Shaq had far better Production in 5/6 Western Conference series in 01 and 02 while being the main focus of the opposing defenses and was the teams defensive anchor.

I dont see how you can say they were anywhere close to being equal's even if you completely remove the Finals.

I am not saying Kobe wasn't one of the best player in the league in 01 and 02 but Shaq was by far the best player in the entire league those years and he was far more important to the Lakers then Kobe was.

Then dont win without either one of them but the gap in Production in 00 and 02 was essentially the same between Pippen and Jordan so why should I view it differently?

Jordan wouldn't have won without Pippen
Shaq wouldn't have won with Kobe

[jacobgoindum]

Shaq had far better Production in 5/6 Western Conference series in 01 and 02 while being the main focus of the opposing defenses and was the teams defensive anchor.

I dont see how you can say they were anywhere close to being equal's even if you completely remove the Finals.

I am not saying Kobe wasnt one of the best player in the league in 01 and 02 but Shaq was by far the best player in the entire league those years and he was far more important to the Lakers then Kobe was.

Then dont win without either one of them but the gap in Production in 00 and 02 was essentially the same between Pippen and Jordan so why should I view it differently?

Kobe led the team in points and assists throught the first 3 rounds in '01 and '02, how much times do I have to say that
That is not Pippen-like, thats very impactful
How is it not even close when a guy leads the team in 2 major categories?

[32Dayz]

Kobe did not lead the team in points.

28 Points on 55-60% Shooting >>>>>>>>>>>> 30 Points on 40-50% Shooting.

Are you that biased that you can overlook such an enormous gap in efficiency because of a 1-3 point differential in volume?

[jacobgoindum]

Kobe did not lead the team in points.

28 Points on 55-60% Shooting >>>>>>>>>>>> 30 Points on 40-50% Shooting.

Are you that biased that you can overlook such an enormous gap in efficiency because of a 1-3 point differential in volume?

efficiency in a guard and center are completely different, how many 3s has Shaq taken?
and what about freethrow %?
Kobe did lead the team in points throught the first 3 rounds in '01 and '02
31.6>29.3
26.6>26.4

[32Dayz]

efficiency in a guard and center are completely different, how many 3s has Shaq taken?

The 0ffense was run through Shaq, the opposing defenses would double and triple Shaq while Kobe got to work mostly on single coverage.

Do you honestly believe Kobe was even close to Shaq 0ffensively from 00-02.

2002 FMVP : Shaquille Oneal
Stats in 4 Winz
Shaquille Oneal : 36 / 12.5 / 3.75 --- 60%FG
Kobe Bryant : 26 / 6 / 5 --- 51%

Post Season PER/WShares
Shaquille Oneal : 28.4 --- 3.8
Kobe Bryant : 20.5 --- 2.6

Conclusion : GOAT Playoffs and Finals performance by Shaquille Oneal
Led Team in Production and WShares by an enormous amount throughout the entire playoffs and had by far the best Production/Play in the Finals.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2001 FMVP : Shaquille Oneal
Stats in 4 Wins
Shaquille Oneal : 31 / 15 / 5 / 4.5 BPG --- 56% FG
Kobe Bryant : 27 / 8 / 6 --- 44% FG

Post Season PER
Shaquille Oneal : 28.7
Kobe Bryant : 25

Conclusion : GOAT Playoffs and Finals performance by Shaquille Oneal
Led Team in Production by an enormous amount throughout the entire playoffs was (essentially) tied with Bryant in Total WShares and had by far the best Production/Play in the Finals.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2000 FMVP : Shaquille Oneal
Stats in 4 Wins
Shaquille Oneal : 40 / 19 / 2.5 / 3BPG --- 60% FG
Kobe Bryant : 17 / 4 / 4 --- 40% FG

Post Season PER/WShares
Shaquille Oneal : 30.5 --- 4.7
Kobe Bryant : 19.3 --- 2.1

Conclusion : The GOAT Playoffs and Finals performance by Shaquille Oneal (Averaged 40/20 in the 4 LA Wins (Holy S***)

Led Team in Production and WShares by an enormous amount throughout the entire playoffs and had by far the best Production/Play in the Finals.

Notes : Very similar situation to Duncan in 03 and Hakeem in 94.

[32Dayz]

efficiency in a guard and center are completely different, how many 3s has Shaq taken?
and what about freethrow %?
Kobe did lead the team in points throught the first 3 rounds in '01 and '02
31.6>29.3
26.6>26.4

Even if you use TS% to account for FT's Shaq still has a dramatic edge in efficiency all 3 years in the WCFSeries.

So being equal in Volume but far less efficient is worse not better.

Then when you account for how defenses were defending each of them the comparison is no longer reasonable.

[jacobgoindum]

The 0ffense was run through Shaq, the opposing defenses would double and triple Shaq while Kobe got to work mostly on single coverage.

Do you honestly believe Kobe was even close to Shaq 0ffensively from 00-02.

2001 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .492 FG%
Shaq - 29.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .547 FG%

2002 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%

For the whole run
'01 Kobe 29.4, Shaq 30.4
'02 Kobe 26.6, Shaq 28.5

not even close

[jacobgoindum]

Even if you use TS% to account for FT's Shaq still has a dramatic edge in efficiency all 3 years in the WCFSeries.

So being equal in Volume but far less efficient is worse not better.

Then when you account for how defenses were defending each of them the comparison is no longer reasonable.

considering that Kobe is a SG and Shaq is a C, ofcourse he is more efficient he plays deep in the post 100% of the time, Kobe is a perimeter player

[32Dayz]

2001 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .492 FG%
Shaq - 29.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .547 FG%

2002 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%

For the whole run
'01 Kobe 29.4, Shaq 30.4
'02 Kobe 26.6, Shaq 28.5

not even close

Agreed.

Shaq is far better statistically but even disregarding that.
Your completely ignoring the context of the way they were defended, ignoring the fact that Shaq had to deal with far more defensive attention/pressure and was also the defensive anchor to those teams and far more impactful on the defensive end of the floor.

Shaq/Kobe may have been closer then Jordan/Pippen but the gap was still quite large. Your highly underestimating the difference in Production, Impact and Value between the two.

It isn't that Kobe isn't great but its that 00-02 Shaq is arguably the GOAT. There is no reasonable way to say Kobe is close to him unless your trying to imply that 01-02 Kobe is somehow equal or on the same Tier as
Prime Shaq/Jordan/Kareem/Wilt

Kobe's Peak was great but it probably was more towards 09 then 01 and it doesn't belong in the same class as those players above.

[jacobgoindum]

Agreed.

Shaq is far better statistically but even disregarding that.
Your completely ignoring the context of the way they were defended, ignoring the fact that Shaq had to deal with far more defensive attention/pressure and was also the defensive anchor to those teams and far more impactful on the defensive end of the floor.

Shaq/Kobe may have been closer then Jordan/Pippen but the gap was still quite large. Your highly underestimating the difference in Production, Impact and Value between the two.

It isn't that Kobe isn't great but its that 00-02 Shaq is arguably the GOAT. There is no reasonable way to say Kobe is close to him unless your trying to imply that 01-02 Kobe is somehow equal or on the same Tier as
Prime Shaq/Jordan/Kareem/Wilt

Kobe's Peak was great but it probably was more towards 09 then 01 and it doesn't belong in the same class as those players above.

How can it be "not even close" when Kobe led the team in points and assists in first 3 rounds of the '01 and '02 Playoffs

Look, Shaq was better we all know that, but it isn't "not even close" at all

and lol @ you highlighting the rebounding difference between a SG and C, look at the difference in APG in 01, but anyways you need to stop severly underrating Kobe during those runs, 29/7/6 and 27/6/5 in '01 and '02 Playoffs and in the first 3 rounds leading the team in points and assists in '01 and '02 Playoffs (32/7/7 in '01), that is not a Pippen-Jordan gap, Pippen never even came close in PPG (it was always a 9.5-15.6 PPG difference in all 6 championships).

[32Dayz]

How can it be "not even close" when Kobe led the team in points and assists in first 3 rounds of the '01 and '02 Playoffs

Look, Shaq was better we all know that, but it isn't "not even close" at all

and lol @ you highlighting the rebounding difference between a SG and C, look at the difference in APG in 01, but anyways you need to stop severly underrating Kobe during those runs, 29/7/6 and 27/6/5 in '01 and '02 Playoffs and in the first 3 rounds leading the team in points and assists in '01 and '02 Playoffs, that is not a Pippen-Jordan gap, Pippen never even came close in PPG (it was always a 10+ difference in all 6 championships I believe).

I dont know how you can expect people to take you seriously when you think scoring .2-1 points more a game while being significantly less efficient is somehow a reason to say that player is better.

But anyway... keep thinking it was close if it makes you happy but in reality it really wasnt.

Shaq was Jordan and Kobe was Pippen.

2001 FMVP : Shaquille Oneal
Stats in 4 Wins
Shaquille Oneal : 31 / 15 / 5 / 4.5 BPG --- 56% FG
Kobe Bryant : 27 / 8 / 6 --- 44% FG

Post Season PER
Shaquille Oneal : 28.7
Kobe Bryant : 25

Conclusion : GOAT Playoffs and Finals performance by Shaquille Oneal
Led Team in Production by an enormous amount throughout the entire playoffs was (essentially) tied with Bryant in Total WShares and had by far the best Production/Play in the Finals.