A shame Wilt didn't come back to play in 1985

[La Frescobaldi]

I also asked you this...

If those "greats", and in their primes, that I mentioned, were to play in THIS era, how would their numbers translate? If you believe that there numbers would decline, how much? And if the decline is minimal, what does that say about THEIR competition, and THEIR peers?

For instance, how about a '75 McAdoo? The man played 43 mpg, averaged 35.4 ppg on a .512 FG% (and an .805 FT% BTW), in an NBA that averaged 102.6 ppg on an eFG% of .457.

Compare McAdoo's '75 season with just last year. Last season the NBA averaged 101.0 ppg, on an eFG% of .501.

Now, you tell me what kind of numbers that McAdoo would put up in THIS era.

I have no idea.
The percentages of using the 3 shot vs. the 2 are so overwhelming that he may not get the ball often enough to show

[LAZERUSS]

I have no idea.
The percentages of using the 3 shot vs. the 2 are so overwhelming that he may not get the ball often enough to show

Or, he may have expanded his 20 ft range to 23 ft, and been another Durant.

[LAZERUSS]

you'll have to read the whole thread. I already mentioned "league as a whole" for a reason.
All time greats are going to be all time greats no matter what. You list off the very best players of an era like they are pocket change laying around on every street corner....
while I specifically talk about very strong but very definitely secondary level guys.

And yes, skills are higher, of course. Lucas doesn't shoot like Curry, man; but he would still completely destroy the League with his overwhelming abilities.

Take a look at the '67 Warriors, the '67 Lakers, the '67 Hawks, the '67 Royals, and the '67 Knicks, of which four of those five teams had losing records, and tell me with a straight face, that the "secondary" players on those doesn't compare to those of today.

For instance...Bob Love, Jon McGlocklin, and Flynn Robinson were basically riding the Royals bench. The Lakers had Gail Goodrich and Walt Hazard on their bench.

The reality is, you could go right down those rosters, and they were loaded with players who would have multiple 20+ ppg seasons.

[La Frescobaldi]

Or, he may have expanded his 20 ft range to 23 ft, and been another Durant.

McAdoo??

I dunno on that one......................

[La Frescobaldi]

Take a look at the '67 Warriors, the '67 Lakers, the '67 Hawks, the '67 Royals, and the '67 Knicks, of which four of those five teams had losing records, and tell me with a straight face, that the "secondary" players on those doesn't compare to those of today.

For instance...Bob Love, Jon McGlocklin, and Flynn Robinson were basically riding the Royals bench. The Lakers had Gail Goodrich and Walt Hazard on their bench.

The reality is, you could go right down those rosters, and they were loaded with players who would have multiple 20+ ppg seasons.

again. You are talking about raw talent. I am talking about teachable things.

[LAZERUSS]

again. You are talking about raw talent. I am talking about teachable things.

I just want to say that no matter how much we might disagree on some topics, I always respect your opinions. I never have a problem with those that back up their arguments with research, facts, and logic.

[Asukal]

I just want to say that no matter how much we might disagree on some topics, I always respect your opinions. I never have a problem with those that back up their arguments with research, facts, and logic.

30->22->18. FACT. But of course you have a problem with it.

[LAZERUSS]

30->22->18. FACT. But of course you have a problem with it.

Certainly do.

Prime scoring Wilt...

33 ppg...and that is also missing a season in which he averaged 45 ppg. So the drop is from 38 down to 33. And, of course, in those 52 games, he faced RUSSELL and the Celtics in 30 of them, or 60%.

Again, MJ's scoring and efficiency DECLINED SIGNIFICANTLY when he faced a prime "Bad Boys" team from '88-90.

Shaq's scoring and efficiency declined SIGNIFICANTLY when he faced the Robinson-led Spurs from '99 to '02.

And KAJ's scoring and efficiency FELL off the cliff when he faced Thurmond and Chamberlain in '71 thru '73.

BTW, Chamberlain just MURDERED his HOF OPPOSING centers in the entire decade of the 60's in his post-season series against them. And even in the 70's he wiped the floor with them on glass and in efficiency.

How come you never mention that Chamberlain not only considerably ELEVATED his rebounding in the post-season, but he SLAUGHTERED his HOF peers on the glass as well?

Oh, and in his SIX Finals, he murdered his opposing HOF centers on the glass, and outshot them from the field by a staggering .559 to .439 margin (in post-seasons that shot about .435 on average over his entire career.)

And his Finals career scoring "decline" was from 23 ppg all the way down to 19 ppg. Yes, in the seasons in which he reached the Finals, his overall scoring "decline" from his regular season numbers to the Finals, was 23 to 19. And he faced a HOF center in ALL SIX of them.

[Asukal]

Certainly do.

Prime scoring Wilt...

33 ppg...and that is also missing a season in which he averaged 45 ppg. So the drop is from 38 down to 33. And, of course, in those 52 games, he faced RUSSELL and the Celtics in 30 of them, or 60%.

Again, MJ's scoring and efficiency DECLINED SIGNIFICANTLY when he faced a prime "Bad Boys" team from '88-90.

Shaq's scoring and efficiency declined SIGNIFICANTLY when he faced the Robinson-led Spurs from '99 to '02.

And KAJ's scoring and efficiency FELL off the cliff when he faced Thurmond and Chamberlain in '71 thru '73.

BTW, Chamberlain just MURDERED his HOF OPPOSING centers in the entire decade of the 60's in his post-season series against them. And even in the 70's he wiped the floor with them on glass and in efficiency.

How come you never mention that Chamberlain not only considerably ELEVATED his rebounding in the post-season, but he SLAUGHTERED his HOF peers on the glass as well?

Oh, and in his SIX Finals, he murdered his opposing HOF centers on the glass, and outshot them from the field by a staggering .559 to .439 margin (in post-seasons that shot about .435 on average over his entire career.)

And his Finals career scoring "decline" was from 23 ppg all the way down to 19 ppg. Yes, in the seasons in which he reached the Finals, his overall scoring "decline" from his regular season numbers to the Finals, was 23 to 19. And he faced a HOF center in ALL SIX of them.

The problem with your argument is you select individual games and series when I'm talking about overall career. You mention rebounding when the topic is PPG. Don't bother answering with your selected stats.

I've never seen a stan more annoying than you. Kobe stans don't pretend, bran stans are just plain stupid, jordan stans can be annoying too, but you are on another level entirely.

[LAZERUSS]

The problem with your argument is you select individual games and series when I'm talking about overall career. You mention rebounding when the topic is PPG. Don't bother answering with your selected stats.

I've never seen a stan more annoying than you. Kobe stans don't pretend, bran stans are just plain stupid, jordan stans can be annoying too, but you are on another level entirely.

And the problem with "bashers" like yourself, is that you never use CONTEXT.

A prime "scoring" Chamberlain...(and then even to a "balanced" Wilt up thru '68)

Here are Chamberlain's AND his opposing center's scoring games in Wilt's PRIME from 59-60 thru 67-68...all 80 of them. BTW, Wilt played in 160 playoff games, and these were exactly half of them.

Incidently, Wilt' "scoring" prime was from 59-60 thru 65-66.

* denotes games against Russell
** denotes games against Thurmond
*** denotes games against Bellamy

Some other sidenotes:

1. Wilt averaged 30 ppg against Russell in the '60 EDF's, and on a .500 FG%, in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .402.

2. Wilt outshot Russell from the field in the '62 ECF's, .468 to .399 (BTW, Russell shot .457 from the field against the NBA that year.)

3. Chamberlain shot .559 in the '64 WCF's (while scoring 38.6 ppg)

4. Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 29.2 to 11.2 ppg, and outshot Russell from the floor by a .517 to .386 margin.

5. Wilt hung a STAGGRING seven-game series on Russell of 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and on a .555 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .429) Oh, and Russell shot .451 against Wilt in the '65 playoffs (and .702 against LA in the Finals.)

6. Wilt shot .509 against Russell in the '66 ECF's (while averaging 28 ppg and 30.2 rpg)

7. Wilt outshot Russell in the '67 ECF's by a .556 to .358 margin.

8. Wilt outshot Thurmond in the '67 Finals by a .560 to .343 margin.

9. Wilt held Bellamy to .421 shooting in the '68 playoffs (Bellamy shot .541 against the league that season.) Meanwhile, all Wilt could do was average 26-20-7 .584 FG%.



Quote:

Prime "Scoring" Wilt

1. 35-5
2. 28-25
3. 53-7
4. 42-19 *
5. 29-15 *
6. 12-26 *
7. 24-17 *
8. 50-22 *
9. 26-25 *
10. 46-15
11. 32-12
12. 33-7
13. 32-9
14. 28-18
15. 40-14
16. 29-27
17. 56-20
18. 33-16 *
19. 42-9 *
20. 35-31 *
21. 41-31 *
22. 30-29 *
23. 32-19 *
24. 22-19 *
25. 37-24
26. 28-4
27. 46-22
28. 36-14
29. 50-6
30. 34-20
31. 39-10
32. 22-9 *
33. 32-9 *
34. 35-16 *
35. 27-8 *
36. 30-14 *
37. 26-18
38. 30-10
39. 17-16
40. 38-7
41. 33-11 *
42. 30-12 *
43. 24-19 *
44. 34-18 *
45. 30-12 *
46. 30-22 *
47. 30-15 *
48. 25-13 *
49. 23-10 *
50. 31-11 *
51. 15-18 *
52. 46-18 *


Wilt from 66-67 thru 67-68


53. 41-29
54. 37-21
55. 16-12
56. 18-8
57. 24-20 *
58. 15-14 *
59. 20-10 *
60. 20-9 *
61. 29-4 *
62. 16-24 **
63. 10-7 **
64. 26-17 **
65. 10-8 **
66. 20-17 **
67. 24-12 **
68. 37-14 ***
69. 24-26 ***
70. 18-22 ***
71. 23-28 ***
72. 26-11 ***
73. 25-19 ***
74. 33-11 *
75. 15-11 *
76. 23-13 *
77. 22-24 *
78. 28-8 *
79. 20-17 *
80. 14-12 *

Wilt outscored his opposing centers in 49 of his first 50 playoff games (and 50 of 52 in his "scoring" prime overall) MANY by HUGE margins.

Overall, in Wilt's first 80 playoff games, covering his PRIME years, he outscored his opposing starting center in 73 of them.

The Wilt who "declined" in the post-season...

Furthermore,

In Wilt's "scoring" prime, he averaged 37 ppg in his "must-win" games.

Of course, overall, in his "must-win" games...

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)


3 games of 50+ points...which BTW, are the ONLY THREE by a "GOAT" candidate in NBA post-season history.

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

GOAT...

[Asukal]

And the problem with "bashers" like yourself, is that you never use CONTEXT.

A prime "scoring" Chamberlain...(and then even to a "balanced" Wilt up thru '68)



Furthermore,

In Wilt's "scoring" prime, he averaged 37 ppg in his "must-win" games.

Of course, overall, in his "must-win" games...



GOAT...

Excuses excuses excuses....

[LAZERUSS]

Excuses excuses excuses....

Excuses?

For being the best player in the vast majority of his 29 post-season series?

And in many he just CARPET-BOMBED his opposing HOF centers?

And CLEARLY the best rebounder, while playing GOAT-level defense against the likes of Bellamy, Reed, Thurmond, Russell,and especially on a peak Kareem?