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  1. #91
    7/11/14 We Witness NattyPButter's Avatar
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
    This is your idea of the English language and you're calling us stupid? And why bother responding to my post if you're not going to address any of my points?
    I did address it by saying you can't call Jordan the best when he needed the merchandise (rings) first to prove it. Also lets act like Jordan wasn't just starting his career while Bird on almost on his way out. Your other posts were just wasn't worth answering. Here's why...Past players are already saying Lebron is the best or will be the best player to step on the court. It's not the media that is doing all the talking...it's past players also. I'm done no point and continue arguing with blindness and hateful ppl.

  2. #92
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by NattyPButter
    I did address it by saying you can't call Jordan the best when he needed the merchandise (rings) first to prove it. Also lets act like Jordan wasn't just starting his career while Bird on almost on his way out. Your other posts were just wasn't worth answering. Here's why...Past players are already saying Lebron is the best or will be the best player to step on the court. It's not the media that is doing all the talking...it's past players also. I'm done no point and continue arguing with blindness and hateful ppl.
    I think like 2-3 players said Lebron would be the best or become the best.

    Take a poll with every legend that's ever played in the NBA, and it'll look something like, 300 to 15 that say MJ will never be surpassed by Lebron.

    It's just a bigger headline when someone says Lebron is and will be the better player at the end of the day.

  3. #93
    College superstar kNicKz's Avatar
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingwillball
    Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks




    Don't be foolish. Bird would abuse Lebron one on one

  4. #94
    NBA rookie of the year Kingwillball's Avatar
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAQisGOAT
    Said he was a great passer but if you say better than Bird as far as that, to me that's overrating him as a passer.

    Again, 4 videos adding up to like 30 minutes of different footage, dude played in the 80s, with plenty of passes Lebron never made. Just the 1st video shows you how great he was, full-court passes with such precision, really fast, great length, even from below the backcourt which is extremely difficult, that's a QB arm. Then you see the touch passes, the catch-n-shoot passes, the flashy yet "necessary" passes, left handed passes, crazy passes before you even see it coming. Again if you saw Bird play considerably you'll never say Lebron's a better passer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk

    I saw Bird play and he was also a great passer but Lebron can make any pass on the court and if Lebron was a QB as far as Velocity he would be John Elway As his passes have more zip than anybody especially cross court.Oh and Lebron can throw a perfect full court pass with touch also..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdKMCp_SwZM
    Last edited by Kingwillball; 05-23-2013 at 11:58 PM.

  5. #95
    I make 50-feet jumpers Odinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    I'll say once again;
    Bird is the better passer. LeBron is the better playmaker.
    There is a considerable difference.

  6. #96
    College star SHAQisGOAT's Avatar
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose'sACL
    Just stop it. Lebron has made long passes too.
    Idiots like you think athleticism isn't part of the game of basketball.
    I have no problem if you say that bird did more with less(one of the reasons i like bird) but to say that lebron hasn't made the passes bird made or to say that lebron passes don't count because he is most athletic just shows how dumb your argument is. Go watch batsmen in Cricket if all you want is timing and skill and no athleticism. Talking about athleticism as a minus point in a sports like basketball is just retarded.
    Show me a pass that bird made which you think lebron hasn't made. i will show you a very similar pass.
    I don't even argue with people who say that they would take bird over lebron as it is too close to call but as a passer lebron is better even though by a very little margin and it is very clear to anyone who watched them both without any bias.

    So I'm the idiot? You're the one misquoting, I've never said athleticism isn't part of the game lmfao.
    Yea you don't show any bias at all, and I'm pretty sure you've watched both Anyone who knows their shit can clearly tell Bird's a better passer.

    You say much but show nothing

    Again 2:41 minutes of amazing full-court passes, with terrific precision, really fast, plenty of them from below the backcourt. That's a QB playing basketball.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
    Show me the same from Lebron.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk
    Show me some of those touch passes, slap passes, assists quickly after getting the ball, touch assists off of rebounds, behind the back from far away going through like 2/3 players, behind the back right after you get the pass, getting the ball just to throw behind the back getting the assist a split second after, full court bounce passes with tremendous precision, assists while sitting down, what about that one in part 3 at 2:57 with the left hand Lebron trying that the ball would be in the 3rd row.

    30+ minutes footage of amazing passes, dude played in the 80s, a 30+ video of Lebron passing the ball with his best passes wouldn't hold a candle to all of that. Those 5 min, 10 min, highlights videos with Lebron's passing can't **** with that, plenty of passes he hasn't made.

    Show me then... You can't, I've watched plenty of Lebron and saw all of those highlights videos posted here, before, and more, and he's a great passer but not quite like Bird.

    On the other hand I can show you plenty of assists of Lebron dribbling up the clock and at the end making an easy pass to a shooter, looking away to where's no one after the pass is completed to make it seem like a no-look pass, plenty of driving and dishing which requires skill but not all that.
    You can't show me that from Bird, he wasn't the main ball-handler, he didn't dribble up the clock, he made quick plays and passes not wasting motion, lots of assists right after he catched the ball, he made it extremely flashy if/when necessary, he had like Ainge as a great 3pt shooter only in his career.

  7. #97
    7-time NBA All-Star KG215's Avatar
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by aburre21
    Bird was not a better passer than LeBron, it's that simple. And I don't believe he was a better rebounder either. Rebounding is all about effort. When LeBron puts the effort into it like he did in the 2012 playoffs he can rebound with the best of them, and that included many offensive rebounds and finishes.
    So one playoff run where he put forth the effort means he was a better rebounder?

    LeBron in the 2012 playoffs averaged 9.7 RPG and had a TRB% of 13.8%. The 9.7 RPG would rank 7th in Bird's career, and the 13.8% would rank 6th. LeBron's does have a 14.1% to his credit in 2009. That'd still rank 6th in Bird's career.

    As for the regular season? LeBron's career averages are 7.3 RPG and 10.8% TRB%; Bird's career averages were 10.0 RPG and 14.5%.

  8. #98
    College star SHAQisGOAT's Avatar
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingwillball
    I saw Bird play and he was also a great passer but Lebron can make any pass on the court and if Lebron was a QB as far as Velocity he would be John Elway As his passes have more zip than anybody especially cross court.Oh and Lebron can throw a perfect full court pass with touch also..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdKMCp_SwZM

    Showed you a video with 2:41 of footage with full-court QB like passes from a dude who played in the 80s... Best you can do is one play that doesn't even compete with the best I've shown you?

    Seriously pretty much all of the passes in the video I posted shit all over that (only one) play.

    Lmao Bird would've thrown a much better pass than that in that situation with only one hand, heck with the left hand only.
    Last edited by SHAQisGOAT; 05-24-2013 at 12:05 AM.

  9. #99
    7-time NBA All-Star
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by NattyPButter
    I did address it by saying you can't call Jordan the best when he needed the merchandise (rings) first to prove it. Also lets act like Jordan wasn't just starting his career while Bird on almost on his way out. Your other posts were just wasn't worth answering. Here's why...Past players are already saying Lebron is the best or will be the best player to step on the court. It's not the media that is doing all the talking...it's past players also. I'm done no point and continue arguing with blindness and hateful ppl.
    First of all, I never stated who I thought was the best player ever in my post. More importantly, yes I can call Jordan the best if I feel he was the best player.

    Past players were also saying Kobe was or will be better than Jordan. Did you agree with that? People say a lot of things when a player is at the top of their games, and then years later, the perception changes. For example, during Shaq's prime, many people, including quite a few coaches and players were calling him the best big man ever, and how many people do you hear say that 10-15 years later?

    I don't hate Lebron. I think he's an incredible player, and historically dominant. I just don't have a short memory and overreact to how well he's playing now at the expense of past greats.

    Quote Originally Posted by KG215
    So one playoff run where he put forth the effort means he was a better rebounder?

    LeBron in the 2012 playoffs averaged 9.7 RPG and had a TRB% of 13.8%. The 9.7 RPG would rank 7th in Bird's career, and the 13.8% would rank 6th. LeBron's does have a 14.1% to his credit in 2009. That'd still rank 6th in Bird's career.

    As for the regular season? LeBron's career averages are 7.3 RPG and 10.8% TRB%; Bird's career averages were 10.0 RPG and 14.5%.
    And that's before considering the teams they were on. It's a lot different putting up rebounding numbers when your frontcourt players are Robert Parish, Kevin McHale and Bill Walton, as Bird's were during the 1986 title run when he averaged 9.3 rpg(12.1 TRB%), or Parish, Cedric Maxwell and McHale as they were during the 1981 championship run when Bird averaged 14 rpg(17.6 TRB%), as well as the '84 run when he averaged 11 rpg(15 TRB%)

    A LOT different than putting up rebounding numbers with Bosh, Battier, Joel Anthony and Udonis Haslem as your frontcourt players.
    Last edited by ShaqAttack3234; 05-24-2013 at 12:11 AM.

  10. #100
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinn
    I'll say once again;
    Bird is the better passer. LeBron is the better playmaker.
    There is a considerable difference.
    that's a part of passing



    Passing encompasses vision, anticipation(seeing the play before it happens and knowing where your teammates are), and playmaking



    Lebron is great at every single one of these categories. Dude anticipates like no other player and the game and he always knows where his shooters and everyone else is. Nobody is gonna just leave their man open, you have to runs sets or put pressure on the defense to get open looks and find the person who is open which is playmaking. And he almost always throws an accurate pass that allows his teammates to catch and shoot or finish




    Yall dudes are clowns. Larry Bird was not a better passer than LeBron by any stretch of the imagination. Clueless ****s

  11. #101
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    The term "it's not even close" is getting tiring on here, quick.

    Either way, it's pretty damn close. Not much that separates them in terms of impact, except with the pinch bias from certain posters here.

  12. #102
    Sunshine State
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAQisGOAT
    2:41 of QB-like passes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
    The speed, precision and length are crazy, show me Lebron doing those, Bird was a quarterback out there.

    Even Magic amazed with Bird's passing:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
    Show me Lebron doing some of those touch passes, touch catch-n-pass assists, some of those unbelievably flashy yet necessary passes, some of those where you don't see nothing happening then the ball hits the right guy on the spot.

    15 minutes footage, blows everything by Lebron out of the water:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns

    "Larry Bird's the greatest passing forward in the history of the nba. There's no 2nd place, there's no 3rd place, just others recieving votes.": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk

    All of those videos combine for over 30 minutes of unreal passing footage, from a guy who played back in the 80s. Lebron can't really **** with that and that 10 minute video doesn't cut it.


    Lebron's a great passer but seriously, only somebody who didn't watch Bird think LBJ's a better passer.

    Testament to that is the fact that their passing numbers are quite similar and Bird handled the ball way less, never really played PG like Lebron does, never was that ball dominant also.

    Plus the rules and strategies help Lebron a lot. Look at all the 3pt shooters he had around over the years, lots of them, Bird had like Ainge only. With Lebron's passing ability, will and athleticism it's easy to drive and dish, doesn't take all that much passing skills. Those 3pt shooters also spread the floor so less crowded to make passes inside or to drive. There's also rules like defensive 3 seconds in the paint and so on, less physicality. Assists are also given like free candy nowadays.
    Bird wasn't getting the type of easy assists that you dribble for 22 seconds then make a pass to a 3pt shooter at the last moment or things of that nature. Or looking away to a spot where there's no one after the pass is completed to make it look like a no-look pass or something, he had real flash that but used it if necessary.
    Annndddd thats the thread.

  13. #103
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAQisGOAT
    So I'm the idiot? You're the one misquoting, I've never said athleticism isn't part of the game lmfao.
    Yea you don't show any bias at all, and I'm pretty sure you've watched both Anyone who knows their shit can clearly tell Bird's a better passer.

    You say much but show nothing

    Again 2:41 minutes of amazing full-court passes, with terrific precision, really fast, plenty of them from below the backcourt. That's a QB playing basketball.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
    Show me the same from Lebron.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk
    Show me some of those touch passes, slap passes, assists quickly after getting the ball, touch assists off of rebounds, behind the back from far away going through like 2/3 players, behind the back right after you get the pass, getting the ball just to throw behind the back getting the assist a split second after, full court bounce passes with tremendous precision, assists while sitting down, what about that one in part 3 at 2:57 with the left hand Lebron trying that the ball would be in the 3rd row.

    30+ minutes footage of amazing passes, dude played in the 80s, a 30+ video of Lebron passing the ball with his best passes wouldn't hold a candle to all of that. Those 5 min, 10 min, highlights videos with Lebron's passing can't **** with that, plenty of passes he hasn't made.

    Show me then... You can't, I've watched plenty of Lebron and saw all of those highlights videos posted here, before, and more, and he's a great passer but not quite like Bird.

    On the other hand I can show you plenty of assists of Lebron dribbling up the clock and at the end making an easy pass to a shooter, looking away to where's no one after the pass is completed to make it seem like a no-look pass, plenty of driving and dishing which requires skill but not all that.
    You can't show me that from Bird, he wasn't the main ball-handler, he didn't dribble up the clock, he made quick plays and passes not wasting motion, lots of assists right after he catched the ball, he made it extremely flashy if/when necessary, he had like Ainge as a great 3pt shooter only in his career.

    /THREAD.

  14. #104
    MFFL miles berg's Avatar
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Birds peak was higher but has LeBron reached his peak yet?

  15. #105
    7-time NBA All-Star KG215's Avatar
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    Default Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron

    Quote Originally Posted by aburre21
    Yall dudes are clowns. Larry Bird was not a better passer than LeBron by any stretch of the imagination. Clueless ****s
    By any stretch of the imagination? So, in your mind, it's not even kind of close?

    I think this has become the thing on ISH that gets on my nerves the most. One person picks their side, starts to argue, then goes far enough to say things like "by any stretch of the imagination" or "it's not even close" in arguments when is very, VERY close. I mean, at the absolute worst, even if you believe the answer is LeBron, there's no way you can pretend it's not close and expect people to take you seriously.

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