How come no body gives Nash the respect a 2 time MVP should get?

[MavsSuperFan]

Also
3

[SouBeachTalents]

Oh boy

[riseagainst]

he's a top 5 PG probably, but not top 20.

[Imtheman]

You mean the MVP's he robbed Kobe out of?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Do we all just discredit him because we feel he didnt deserve his MVPs?

A lot of people feel that way, yes. I don't think I disrespect him personally but it's a fact that I don't think of him as a dominant player over his whole career. The two MVP seasons in PHX he was probably the best PG but the stats he had in those seasons aren't that far ahead of seasons we've seen from KJ, Tim Hardaway, Mark Price and others.

[GrapeApe]

You mean the MVP's he robbed Kobe out of?

Kobe's teams didn't have a good enough record in the years Nash won his MVP's. He was phenominal individually, but you're not winning an MVP on a sub 50 win team.

[Thorpesaurous]

I think part of it is because those teams were just a bit ahead of the curve, and just after those teams there was a wave of teams going small, and unleashing the throttle on good PGs, so I think it retrospect those two season have lost a little of their luster. Along with the other stuff, like the numbers not being super dynamic, and the fact that Shaq and Kobe may have deserved one each of those.

I'd have to lay all the names out, but I'd suspect he's 25-30 for me. But almost certainly below any other multiple MVP winner.

[masonanddixon]

Because he's white. Simple as that.

No one criticizes Iverson nor Rose even though neither of them deserved MVP and neither were top 5 players

[NZStreetBaller]

Its because he has spent his remainder years robbing the lakers. Hes no longer fit to play and needs to retire

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Because he's white. Simple as that.

No one criticizes Iverson nor Wade even though neither of them deserved MVP and neither were top 5 players

Wade never won MVP and they both were easily top 5 players

Phoenixs medical staff and Dantonis system made Nashs career thats a fact. The 05 MVP was in a weak year when Shaq shouldve won it anyway but they liked the story of some random canadian turn
06 was a robbery

[masonanddixon]

Wade never won MVP and they both were easily top 5 players

Phoenixs medical staff and Dantonis system made Nashs career thats a fact. The 05 MVP was in a weak year when Shaq shouldve won it anyway but they liked the story of some random canadian turn
06 was a robbery

I meant Rose. And neither Iverson nor Rose were top 5 when they won MVP.

Not sure why people think Shaq deserved it in 04-05. He made the ECF and lost in 6, Nash made the WCF in a far tougher WC.

Nash in 04-05 took a team that won 17 games the previous season to the league's best record. That absolutely merits an MVP. And quite clearly, too.

The only reason people discredit him is because of his skin color. Simple as that.

[joe]

''D'Antoni's system created him.''

Where are all the other PG's being placed in systems that allow them to repeatedly put up historically great offensive numbers? Do coaches not like to copy extremely successful systems? All they need is an above average PG and they could do it, right?

''His teams were stacked.''

2006, he takes a Suns team without Amare to the second seed, and conference finals. This team had Boris Diaw playing center.

2005 they made it to the conference finals before Joe Johnson got hurt.

2007 and 2010 they simply lost to better teams, led by players greater than Nash himself (Duncan and Kobe). But when comparing him to non-legends, guys below Duncan and Kobe and Lebron, Nash seems to get a lot of disrespect.

''He didn't deserve two MVP's (or even one).''


In 2005 Nash was the most significant difference in a team that went from the lottery to the best team in the league. He was dropping 15.5 points and 11.5 assists and running one of the most dominant offenses in league history.

MEANWHILE..

Kobe was on a bad team. Lebron was not on a contender. Shaq was having a very good season, and very nearly won the MVP himself:

The 6-3 point guard, who returned this season to Phoenix where he spent the first two years of his career, totaled 1,066 points to narrowly edge out Shaquille O’Neal (1,032 points) of the Miami Heat in MVP voting. The 34-point difference is the fourth-closest voting margin since media began voting on this award in 1980-1981.

That is as close as it gets. But the fact is, Miami was above .500 before Shaq got there and he was splitting the spotlight with Wade, who arguably had a better statistical season than Shaq himself (24 points, 6.8 assists, 5 rebounds).

The Suns had 29 wins before Nash got there, 13 less than Shaqs. His team finished with more wins than Shaqs team, and he did it in a tougher conference. He did it with a flair that had not been seen from the point guard position in a long time, in the days before we had 400 great point guards populating the league. He was clutch, a great teammate, and made everyone around him better.

In the end, Shaq was dropping 22 and 10. He was not having a 30 and 11 year for Christs sake.

2005-2006:

Nash ups his scoring to 18.8, with a dip in assists to 10.5 His shooting numbers went up across the board. He led his team to 54 wins and a 2 seed in the West, despite losing Amare for the entire year. That is like the Thunder losing Westbrook and still being the 2 seed. Would the voters factor that in? Of course they would. It did a lot to validate Nash and made people realize he was the system, not the other way around. This team had Boris Diaw running center. The offensive brilliance of Nash was the only reason that was allowed to occur.

Meanwhile..

Everyone knew Lebron and Kobe were the best players, but they were not on good enough teams. The MVP award has always rewarded winning. To do it without your second best player just made the pieces fit: Nash was still the MVP. Dwyane Wade had another great season, but it was still considered more Shaqs show than his. Tim Duncan had more wins than Nash, but he was having a down year because of his foot injuries. Dirk had a great year, but Nash had more wins than his team without Amare.

When you really break it down, his back to back MVPs really make perfect sense. The only complaint you can make is that the BEST PLAYERS were Kobe and Lebron. But that is never how the MVP award is handed out. If you are not on a contender, it is rare as hell to get an MVP.

Was Nash lucky? Did he happen to become a great player right as Lebron was young, and Kobe was on a bad team? Absolutely. But if you just look at those years, he deserved those MVPs. And he is one of the greatest players I have had the privilege to watch.

[masonanddixon]

''D'Antoni's system created him.''

Where are all the other PG's being placed in systems that allow them to repeatedly put up historically great offensive numbers? Do coaches not like to copy extremely successful systems? All they need is an above average PG and they could do it, right?

''His teams were stacked.''

2006, he takes a Suns team without Amare to the second seed, and conference finals. This team had Boris Diaw playing center.

2005 they made it to the conference finals before Joe Johnson got hurt.

2007 and 2010 they simply lost to better teams, led by players greater than Nash himself (Duncan and Kobe). But when comparing him to non-legends, guys below Duncan and Kobe and Lebron, Nash seems to get a lot of disrespect.

''He didn't deserve two MVP's (or even one).''


In 2005 Nash was the most significant difference in a team that went from the lottery to the best team in the league. He was dropping 15.5 points and 11.5 assists and running one of the most dominant offenses in league history.

MEANWHILE..

Kobe was on a bad team. Lebron was not on a contender. Shaq was having a very good season, and very nearly won the MVP himself:



That is as close as it gets. But the fact is, Miami was above .500 before Shaq got there and he was splitting the spotlight with Wade, who arguably had a better statistical season than Shaq himself (24 points, 6.8 assists, 5 rebounds).

The Suns had 29 wins before Nash got there, 13 less than Shaqs. His team finished with more wins than Shaqs team, and he did it in a tougher conference. He did it with a flair that had not been seen from the point guard position in a long time, in the days before we had 400 great point guards populating the league. He was clutch, a great teammate, and made everyone around him better.

In the end, Shaq was dropping 22 and 10. He was not having a 30 and 11 year for Christs sake.

2005-2006:

Nash ups his scoring to 18.8, with a dip in assists to 10.5 His shooting numbers went up across the board. He led his team to 54 wins and a 2 seed in the West, despite losing Amare for the entire year. That is like the Thunder losing Westbrook and still being the 2 seed. Would the voters factor that in? Of course they would. It did a lot to validate Nash and made people realize he was the system, not the other way around. This team had Boris Diaw running center. The offensive brilliance of Nash was the only reason that was allowed to occur.

Meanwhile..

Everyone knew Lebron and Kobe were the best players, but they were not on good enough teams. The MVP award has always rewarded winning. To do it without your second best player just made the pieces fit: Nash was still the MVP. Dwyane Wade had another great season, but it was still considered more Shaqs show than his. Tim Duncan had more wins than Nash, but he was having a down year because of his foot injuries. Dirk had a great year, but Nash had more wins than his team without Amare.

When you really break it down, his back to back MVPs really make perfect sense. The only complaint you can make is that the BEST PLAYERS were Kobe and Lebron. But that is never how the MVP award is handed out. If you are not on a contender, it is rare as hell to get an MVP.

Was Nash lucky? Did he happen to become a great player right as Lebron was young, and Kobe was on a bad team? Absolutely. But if you just look at those years, he deserved those MVPs. And he is one of the greatest players I have had the privilege to watch.

Lebron wasn't better than him.

The top 2 were clearly Dirk and Kobe, then everyone else was in the mix.

[bdreason]

Because Jeremy Lin looked like Allen Iverson under the same offensive system. Nash is obviously a great player, but a 2x MVP? A lot of that has to do with inflated regular season numbers and a lot of media hype.

[StephHamann]

Nash is great but not Top 20.

Greatest PGs of all time:

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Stockton
4. Isiah
5. Nash