The statistical value of college

[3ball]

This is why I find it funny that Kobe fans applaud you. If Kobe were at his peak right now they'd realize what you're all about too.

Kobe > Lebron easily, although Reggie destroyed Kobe in 2000 Finals, averaging 24 ppg to Kobe's 15.. Reggie would've done the same thing to Lebron in 2007 or 2011, only his Pacers would've won.

You forget that Reggie was a playoff legend - he was the hero against the Knicks in various wars, he almost beat MJ in 1998 ECF, and destroyed Kobe in 2000 Finals..

Reggie > Vince Carter, Ray Allen... Playoff Stats:


Miller[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR]: 20.6 ppg.. 44.9 fg.. 60.4 ts.. 119 ortg.. 19.5 PER.. 0.180 ws/48
Carter: 19.1 ppg.. 41.3 fg.. 51.2 ts.. 106 ortg.. 18.6 PER.. 0.125 ws/48
Allen[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]: 16.1 ppg.. 44.3 fg.. 58.5 ts.. 115 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.143 ws/48

rebs, ast, stl, and blk, dbpm negligible

[3ball]

Empty stats, first round sweep.

You have to understand - playing a superior brand of basketball is how teams win when they have equal or lesser talent than the opponent.

This is where the term "empty stats" comes from.. When a team loses despite having equal or greater talent, that means their brand of basketball was inferior, rendering the stats "empty", since they were achieved within a system that couldn't win (so the system ended up being more to stat-pad than win).

Lebron has lost several times when his team had equal or greater talent several times - of course, this was due to an inferior brand of basketball - this happened in the 2009 ECF, 2011 Finals, and 2014 Finals, rendering the stats he achieved in those series, empty.

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe > Lebron easily, although Reggie destroyed Kobe in 2000 Finals, averaging 24 ppg to Kobe's 15.. Reggie would've done the same thing to Lebron in 2007 or 2011, only his Pacers would've won.

You forget that Reggie was a playoff legend - he was the hero against the Knicks in various wars, he almost beat MJ in 1998 ECF, and destroyed Kobe in 2000 Finals..

Reggie > Vince Carter, Ray Allen... Playoff Stats:


Miller[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR]: 20.6 ppg.. 44.9 fg.. 60.4 ts.. 119 ortg.. 19.5 PER.. 0.180 ws/48
Carter: 19.1 ppg.. 41.3 fg.. 51.2 ts.. 106 ortg.. 18.6 PER.. 0.125 ws/48
Allen[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]: 16.1 ppg.. 44.3 fg.. 58.5 ts.. 115 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.143 ws/48

rebs, ast, stl, and blk, dbpm negligible

[24-Inch_Chrome]

First round sweep.

Agreed, empty stats.

[3ball]

Agreed, empty stats.

You have a misunderstanding about empty stats.

When a team loses despite having greater talent, that means their brand of basketball was inferior, rendering the stats "empty", since they were achieved within a system that couldn't win (so the system ended up being more to stat-pad than win).

Lebron has lost several times when his team had equal or greater talent - of course, this was due to an inferior brand of basketball, rendering his stats empty - this happened in the 2009 ECF, 2011 Finals, and 2014 Finals, rendering the stats he achieved in those series, empty.

[swagga]

You have a misunderstanding about empty stats.

When a team loses despite having greater talent, that means their brand of basketball was inferior, rendering the stats "empty", since they were achieved within a system that couldn't win (so the system ended up being more to stat-pad than win).

Lebron has lost several times when his team had equal or greater talent - of course, this was due to an inferior brand of basketball, rendering his stats empty - this happened in the 2009 ECF, 2011 Finals, and 2014 Finals, rendering the stats he achieved in those series, empty.

michael jordan's brand of basketball is the greatest. NIKE

[24-Inch_Chrome]

First round sweep.

I agree, empty stats. Glad to see we're on the same page.

Winning in the finals > losing in the finals > first round sweep.

[3ball]

I agree, empty stats. Glad to see we're on the same page.

Lebron lost too, but his stats weren't empty, just like MJ's stats weren't empty.

Definition of empty stats: when a player loses despite his team having greater talent, his stats are "empty" because his scoring was part of the inferior brand of basketball that allowed the other team to overcome their talent deficit.. The inferior brand of basketball was better at padding stats than winning.

Lebron's inferior brand of basketball allowed opponents to overcome a talent deficit or stalemate in 2009, 2011, and 2015... And if Kyrie had been there in 2015 Finals, then 2015 too.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You're right, LeBron made it to the finals while Jordan was swept in the first round. Empty stats.

Agreed.

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron lost too, but his stats weren't empty, just like MJ's stats weren't empty.

Definition of empty stats: when a player loses despite his team having greater talent, his stats are "empty" because his scoring was part of the inferior brand of basketball that allowed the other team to overcome their talent deficit.. The inferior brand of basketball was better at padding stats than winning.

Lebron's inferior brand of basketball allowed opponents to overcome a talent deficit or stalemate in 2009, 2011, and 2015... And if Kyrie had been there in 2015 Finals, then 2015 too.

You mean YOUR definition? As it pertains to your quest to downplay Lebron

[3ball]

You mean YOUR definition? As it pertains to your quest to downplay Lebron

It isn't my definition - when a team with less talent wins, they overcame the talent deficit by playing a superior brand of basketball.

Anytime a player loses when his had greater talent, his stats are "empty" because his scoring was part of the inferior basketball that allowed the other team to overcome their talent deficit.. The inferior brand of basketball was better at padding stats than winning.

Lebron's inferior brand of basketball allowed opponents to overcome a talent deficit or stalemate in 2009, 2011, and 2015... And if Kyrie had been there in 2015 Finals, then 2015 too.

Otoh, MJ never lost with equal or greater talent - anytime he lost, his team had less talent, so his stats were never empty.
.

[JohnFreeman]

Indeed.

[KobesFinger]

Wasn't Jordan was 23 in '86?

[oarabbus]

Agreed.

Didn't realize that MJ's opponents were so weak.

[Gus Hemmingway]

Wasn't Jordan was 23 in '86?

Yes

MJ was drafted at age 21, in 1986 he was 23-24 years old

OP's narrative and comparison is based on false information

in 1984, when Jordan was 21, Chicago played and lost to the Bucks