Who is the Greatest Of All Time For You?

[Niquesports]

I don't need to read anything. I am well aware of Oscar's game and how complete his game was, so I don't need you or anyone questioning my "objectivity about the game".

I've took time to learn about Oscar, more time than you can imagine. And no, imo, he has no case for being the g.o.a.t.

And I can tell you my criteria for ranking playsiers, and show you how Oscar doesn't add up, imo. Aside from statistical production.

Well tell me your criteria for ranking players then. By the way I respect your opinion just dont agree with it if your saying Oscar isn't in the discussion.

[AirJordan&Magic]

But can you really dismiss putting up legendary all-around numbers. I don't know if you ever saw oscar play but he was truly great. I have to admit that it may be my state of Indiana bias, but I saw oscar in high school and saw Larry Bird when he played in my home town of terre haute, in. ISU at every home game and they were the best I ever saw at that time. Oscar was every bit as good as Larry IMHO.

Of course you can't dismiss it, I never did.

I didn't see Oscar play, neither did the majority of posters here, despite how old they pretend to be. (Not saying you).

I'm not dismissing his numbers, I'm talking about other things compared to the other guys.
Team success, individual playoff performances, accomplishments, etc

[AirJordan&Magic]

Well tell me your criteria for ranking players then. By the way I respect your opinion just dont agree with it if your saying Oscar isn't in the discussion.

I don't expect many to agree, and I'm not saying it is a fact. It's just my personal opinion... And if you do think he is in the discussion, I respect that.

Btw....

My personal criteria is individual accomplishments (KAJ and Jordan), team success and how valuable the player was to that team (Bill Russell), longevity (Kareem Abdul Jabbar), talent, fundamental and skill level (Jordan, KAJ, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Hakeem, Oscar), peak play (KAj, Wilt, Shaq, Jordan), statistical production(Wilt and Oscar), and playoff performance (Jordan, KAJ, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell, and Magic)..

[colts19]

Of course you can't dismiss it, I never did.

I didn't see Oscar play, neither did the majority of posters here, despite how old they pretend to be. (Not saying you).

I'm not dismissing his numbers, I'm talking about other things compared to the other guys.
Team success, individual playoff performances, accomplishments, etc

Sadly,I am old. I understand what you are saying. If you look at playoff performances and things like that, I can understand your position and I'm not saying your wrong for feeling the way you do. What I saw with my eyes is what I base my post on. It's like when I talk about Bill Walton, a lot of people disagree with me when I say my eyes tell me he was the best team player along with Magic that I ever saw. But it is still what my eyes told me. Call me crazy, it's OK.

[Niquesports]

Of course you can't dismiss it, I never did.

I didn't see Oscar play, neither did the majority of posters here, despite how old they pretend to be. (Not saying you).

I'm not dismissing his numbers, I'm talking about other things compared to the other guys.
Team success, individual playoff performances, accomplishments, etc

Well I only saw Oscar"s later years. But I have talked with people that are very knowledgeable .
Let me help you
Team success Oscar played in a time when a player 's draft rights were based on territory so the Royals had rights to him. Also there wasn't Free Agency like it is today so he was stuck on a dysfunctional team that had to face the Celtics and Sixers to advance in the playoffs let alone win a finals.
Where Stockton and Magic have passed Oscar in assist,by the way assist were given more generously in both Magic and Stock day than Oscar's neither is any way near Oscar in scored points. I can go on .

[AirJordan&Magic]

Sadly,I am old. I understand what you are saying. If you look at playoff performances and things like that, I can understand your position and I'm not saying your wrong for feeling the way you do. What I saw with my eyes is what I base my post on. It's like when I talk about Bill Walton, a lot of people disagree with me when I say my eyes tell me he was the best team player along with Magic that I ever saw. But it is still what my eyes told me. Call me crazy, it's OK.

And I respect that. Usually, I stray away from topics (Or at least not talk too much about them) about Russell, Oscar, or Wilt because I did not in any point witness them play.

And I have no problem with anyone's opinion. Hell, I saw Shaq play during his LSU days and thought to myself "I had never seen a player this good"

[AirJordan&Magic]

Well I only saw Oscar"s later years. But I have talked with people that are very knowledgeable .
Let me help you
Team success Oscar played in a time when a player 's draft rights were based on territory so the Royals had rights to him. Also there wasn't Free Agency like it is today so he was stuck on a dysfunctional team that had to face the Celtics and Sixers to advance in the playoffs let alone win a finals.
Where Stockton and Magic have passed Oscar in assist,by the way assist were given more generously in both Magic and Stock day than Oscar's neither is any way near Oscar in scored points. I can go on .

What about his later years on the Royals? When Jerry Lucas joined aboard.... His team missed the playoffs for three straight seasons.

And I do agree with your point about assists.

[MakeHistory78]

[pauk]

the man who averaged a 30 pt triple double over 5 seasons

[Niquesports]

What about his later years on the Royals? When Jerry Lucas joined aboard.... His team missed the playoffs for three straight seasons.

And I do agree with your point about assists.

Even with Lucas the team was still dysfunctional . They hired an old Bob Cousy as coach who later became player coach. Now how does that sound the teams best player has his coach come in to play his position ? As far as his team missing the playoffs you have to understand the era. He was in the same division as the Celtics and Sixers .As for the 3 seasons the 3rd Lucas only played 4 games with the Royals. Oscars great support cast was his Robin Tom Van Arsdale Connie Dierking, Johnny Green and the great Fred Foster. This team of Oscar and his support was in a division that had New York ,The Bucks ,Bullets and the Sixers.IN those days just the top 4 teams of each division advanced to the playoffs. Russ,MJ,Magic,Wilt none of them could have lead the Royals to the playoffs with that support .By the way in 66 Oscar and Lucas played Boston the greatest dynasty of all team sports to a 3-2 first round. Winning 2 games in Boston.

[Niquesports]

the man who averaged a 30 pt triple double over 5 seasons

Welcome TO ISH

[pauk]

Welcome TO ISH

[jlip]

what? you got something to say then say it

jordan was almost 39 when he score 50, also score 40 at age of 40, tell me somebody else that done it

yeah, exactly

Kareem- 46 pts (21-30 shooting) against Hakeem on 02/06/86. Kareem was a couple months shy of his 39th b-day. He scored 43pts against Hakeem the next time they met.

Karl Malone- 40 pts 9rbs 7 asts
Jazz vs Magic...03/12/03. He was about 3 months of his 40th b-day.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...303120ORL.html

still jordan was the oldest to ever score 40+ and 50+
being a swingman makes it all the more impressive too

This is the problem I have with the "Jordan only" fanbase. In their opinion every single thing that he did was greater and more impressive than everything that anyone else since the beginning of basketball history has ever done. It's as if ice from his freezer is colder than ice from everybody else's freezer.

I respect the man as a legit GOAT candidate. He's on my short list also. I don't mean to minimize him on any level. The way he played at ages 38-40 after having been retired for years was better than many stars who were 28 and in their prime. But for your initial post you were implying basically that noone had come close to doing the things at near age 40 that MJ did in terms of scoring. Obviously Kareem and Karl Malone performed comparable feats at nearly the same age.

While again, simply being able to put up some of the numbers that he did at that age was nothing short of brilliant, one has to look at a little taste of context. If I were some Jordan hater I could also ask, "What player at age 38+ had the license to enter a system and consistently attempt as many shots per game at that age as he attempted when he was in his athletic prime?Younger fans are always so quick to "contextualize" numbers (especially rebounding) in the Wilt/ Russell era because of factors such as pace which increased the number of possessions. The same treatment should be given to MJ's great scoring feats during his Wizards days when comparing him to other greats at that age. Since the 1986-87 season there have been 45 games were a player 38 years old or older has attempted at least 25 shots. Michael Jordan has 33 of those games by himself. Regardless of position if he has the opportunity to shoot like that shouldn't he have more of those higher scoring games?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...=&order_by=pts

Jordan's scoring games at 38+...Impressive? Most definitely and this fact cannot be denied. Something that no other all time great could have done? No.

[Jan95]

Michael Jordan

Then Magic, Bird and KAJ.

[madmax]

The best individual player of all time: Wilt and no one else is even close - no one dominated their peers to the extent of this man
The best team player of all time : Bill Russell - the definition of a perfect teammate and a true winner
The best player, combining individual talent and team success - Lew Alcindor

Jordan is very overrated and his numbers and achievements are padded playing in a washed up era