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Old 05-26-2013, 03:14 AM   #31
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Default Re: Shaq Was Right

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharmer
Shaq could of been GOAT but he got fat and lazy, he could have had 7-8 rings.

This is true.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:59 AM   #32
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Default Re: Shaq Was Right

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash31
SHAQ CARRED WADE TO A TITLE,WHAT?!

Wade avg over 30,5,5 in the 2006 NBA Finals,

Wade was Finals MVP,

HE AVG 35 in DET

seriously what the f,this hate and ignorance wow.

Its like saying Gasol carried Kobe in 2010.
Give thanks to papa Shaq for giving Wade his rings and just leave please.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:31 AM   #33
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Default Re: Shaq Was Right

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Originally Posted by B-Low
Times Wade even SNIFFED a ring before Shaq = 0
Times Wade even SNIFFED a ring between the time Shaq left and the time LeBron came = 0

It's not really that farfetched to say that Wade gets carried to rings. He won finals MVP because Shaq distracted enough of the defense's attention to make it easier for Wade to go to work. He's a good sidekick that does his best work when he's the defense's second priority. Definitely not a comment that's worthy of a face

OK, listen up. I don't know whether you're driven by agenda or amnesia, but either way, I'm not letting this statement stand. Repeat after me, because you're hearing the word of someone who is far more an authority of Heat goings-on in the 21st century than you are:

Wade was NEVER Shaq's sidekick.

In the 05 regular season, they were 1a/1b; however, Wade was the closer and therefore the "1a."

Shaq then suffered a deep thigh bruise in the spring, and by the 05 playoffs the team was 100% Wade's. Shaq would never again average within 7 pts of Wade as a teammate (he averaged 23 to Wade's 24 in the 05 season):

05 postseason: Wade 27; Shaq 18; 06 season: Wade 27; Shaq 20; 06 postseason: Wade 28; Shaq 19

(Now Shaq never averaged less than 8 boards during any of those seasons or playoffs, but Wade never averaged less than 6 dimes. It was Wade's team through and through, ever since spring 05).

....Also, it's notable that Wade somehow "only gets carried to rings" by the likes of Shaq and James, yet he outplayed both of them badly in Finals series, comprehensively outplayed Shaq in both the 05 and 06 seasons, and outplayed LeBron marginally overall in 2011 (and that's without weighting performance by round).

Like I said, I don't what your excuse is-- whether you're willfully distorting the facts or if your memory is really blurred. But, Wade has carried teams without help as far as Kobe ever has-- two playoff appearances, an average of 45 wins, and as far as a first round loss in Game 7.

Wade is an easy target right now, but no matter fashionable it has become to apply revisionism to his history as a result, his career can not be wiped away.

Last edited by jrong : 05-26-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:50 AM   #34
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Default Re: Shaq Was Right

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrong
OK, listen up. I don't know whether you're driven by agenda or amnesia, but either way, I'm not letting this statement stand. Repeat after me, because you're hearing the word of someone who is far more an authority of Heat goings-on in the 21st century than you are:

Wade was NEVER Shaq's sidekick.

In the 05 regular season, they were 1a/1b; however, Wade was the closer and therefore the "1a."

Shaq then suffered a deep thigh bruise in the spring, and by the 05 playoffs the team was 100% Wade's. Shaq would never again average within 7 pts of Wade as a teammate (he averaged 23 to Wade's 24 in the 05 season):

05 postseason: Wade 27; Shaq 18; 06 season: Wade 27; Shaq 20; 06 postseason: Wade 28; Shaq 19

(Now Shaq never averaged less than 8 boards during any of those seasons or playoffs, but Wade never averaged less than 6 dimes. It was Wade's team through and through, ever since spring 05).

....Also, it's notable that Wade somehow "only gets carried to rings" by the likes of Shaq and James, yet he outplayed both of them badly in Finals series, comprehensively outplayed Shaq in both the 05 and 06 seasons, and outplayed LeBron marginally overall in 2011 (and that's without weighting performance by round).

Like I said, I don't what your excuse is-- whether you're willfully distorting the facts or if your memory is really blurred. But, Wade has carried teams without help as far as Kobe ever has-- two playoff appearances, an average of 45 wins, and as far as a first round loss in Game 7.

Wade is an easy target right now, but no matter fashionable it has become to apply revisionism to his history as a result, his career can not be wiped away.

Right.
My point in this thread is (and it was not aimed at you but at some guy who clearly looked like he was getting his game on with the whiskey bottle or the pipe or maybe both) this.
Wade was never going to win a championship without a great player beside him. Just like Jordan failed, Iverson failed, & Bryant failed.... without a great teammate beside them - at least one.
It's not a knock on Wade........ it's a knock on this infatuation that InsideHoops has about players carrying a team.
It's only happened a handful of times in the history of the NBA, that a player has carried his team all the way to a championship. Rick Barry did it; DJ did it; Dirk Nowitski did it... and I'm runnin' outta names here.
It has never been done by one of the greatest players i.e., Jordan, Bryant, James, Chamberlain, Russell, Kareem, Magic, etc.
Not even once.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:58 AM   #35
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Default Re: Shaq Was Right

Hakeem and Duncan have done it as well.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:55 AM   #36
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Default Re: Shaq Was Right

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikay0
Wade makes move to the basket, defender breathes on him. WHISTLE!

So what about the 3 series prior to that?

Wade was avg 26/6/5 51% 2stls 1blk in the three series prior to that and avg on 9 FTA per.

Jordan has a playoff run (17 games in the 89 playoffs) where he avg 14FTA, including a 8 game stretch where he avg 16 per game, including a 2 games where he shot over 25 FT's (27 in one, 28 in the other), of course Jordan was taking a lot of shots 23 to be exact and presumably many of those shots were in the paint.

Similarly prior to the Finals Wade was attempting less than 18 shots per game but in the Finals he was shooting over 23 field goals per game.

Lebron also has a series where he avg 16 FTA (09 ECF).

It's no coincidence that these guys are probably the 3 greatest perimetre paint scorers of all time. Wade's series is the only one that has received widespread criticism, because his happened in the Finals, his team WON and his occurred in the Finals.
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: Shaq Was Right

Quote:
Originally Posted by ispin69
He was right about Kobe being a ball hoggin chucker.
Wade has been nothing but super inconsistent these past few years.

Shaq had to carry Kobe and Wade to rings.


Shaq played in the NBA for 18 years, he won 4 rings. He wasn't an automatic championship. Even before Kobe developed into one of the league's premiere players and before Wade, he had prime Penny and an All-Star back court in Eddie Jones/Nick Van Exel but didn't win anything. Then he played with prime Nash and Amare, and then LeBron James., but didn't win.

Shaq didn't carry Kobe or Wade. Wade put up 28/6/6 in the playoffs in '06 and Kobe put up 21/5/4, 29/7/6, and 27/6/5 during the Lakers 3-peat. Without their production, Shaq has 0 rings. Don't get me wrong Shaq was a huge part of those championship teams success, but one player dosen't carry a team by himself. Basketball is 5 on 5, not 1 on 1.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:02 PM   #38
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Default Re: Shaq Was Right

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaten
So what about the 3 series prior to that?

Wade was avg 26/6/5 51% 2stls 1blk in the three series prior to that and avg on 9 FTA per.

Jordan has a playoff run (17 games in the 89 playoffs) where he avg 14FTA, including a 8 game stretch where he avg 16 per game, including a 2 games where he shot over 25 FT's (27 in one, 28 in the other), of course Jordan was taking a lot of shots 23 to be exact and presumably many of those shots were in the paint.

Similarly prior to the Finals Wade was attempting less than 18 shots per game but in the Finals he was shooting over 23 field goals per game.

Lebron also has a series where he avg 16 FTA (09 ECF).

It's no coincidence that these guys are probably the 3 greatest perimetre paint scorers of all time. Wade's series is the only one that has received widespread criticism, because his happened in the Finals, his team WON and his occurred in the Finals.

It's an interesting comment up to that sentence... and although Wade isn't anywhere near that high in my estimation, I can see where a guy who never saw Chet Walker or Dr. J or Havlicek could think it. Is Wade one of the greats of the last 20 years? Sure. He was never at Kobe Bryant's level, and probably not at Drexler's level either, but he was one of the great drivers of the past 20 years.

At any rate, most people would consider the fouls that Jordan received to be a lot harder than those Wade received. Mike got hit, slammed, forearm shivered, wrestled, had guys literally jumping on his back..... Wade?
Nobody can validly defend Dwyane Wade without conceding that for his entire career he has flopped miserably and constantly.
He threw away any hope of serious consideration as an all-time great years ago. All-time greats don't play that kind of game.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:05 PM   #39
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Default Re: Shaq Was Right

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
It's only happened a handful of times in the history of the NBA, that a player has carried his team all the way to a championship. Rick Barry did it; DJ did it; Dirk Nowitski did it... and I'm runnin' outta names here.
It has never been done by one of the greatest players i.e., Jordan, Bryant, James, Chamberlain, Russell, Kareem, Magic, etc. Not even once.

And I would argue that it's significantly attributable to circumstantial factors when any of those players have "carried" their team to the title or even on deep runs. The Warriors and Mavs I know simply caught lightning in a bottle (I'd have to brush up on that other series). The Mavs, in particular, benefitted from the fact that it was the Heat's 1st year, an epic choke by LBJ, and very bad coaching by Spoelstra.

LeBron "carried" the Cavs to the Finals in 07, but all that meant is that he beat perennial EC whipping boys Washington and NJ with HCA and then had his first historic playoff performance against the Pistons. Iverson "carried" the Sixers to the Finals in 01 which sounds similarly impressive, until you look at their draw. Iverson's descendant, D-Rose, "carried" the Bulls to the best record and the ECFs-- until those among us who didn't already know discovered over the last two seasons that it was Coach Thibs who was actually lifting the team.

Also, I think you could make the case that Jordan did "carry" the first threepeat Bulls because Pippen and Grant were still coming into their own.

But, the point is that, there are single-star models that can become the blueprint for championship teams. If that team has great defense or a great system, then they can get it done. And it doesn't necessarily mean that the star deserves added credit.

Quote:
He threw away any hope of serious consideration as an all-time great years ago. All-time greats don't play that kind of game

Please define all-time great. If you mean top 10, you're correct. Top 20? There are players included in some top 20 lists whom Dwyane Wade was flat-out better player than in their respective primes. And I saw the Drexler mention. Wade blew past Drexler long ago. Do your own homework on a reference site, but Wade has:

1. more individual/team success 2. better career stats 3. much better advanced stats 4. better peak stats 5. better prime stats 6. more accolades/awards 7. the ability to dribble with his head up and use his left hand 8. only ever deferred to LeBron James, not Terry Porter

Last edited by jrong : 05-26-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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