The truth about Kareem in the 1970's

[Roundball_Rock]

Dankok8's great work warrants a thread of its own to dispel the myths about the GOAT in the 1970's.

Setting the record straight: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in the 1970's

Here is my view on Kareem's career from '71 to '79 before Magic arrived. This is a response to LAZERUSS's posts above.

Let's begin with 71-72...

That season it is absolutely true that the Bucks were dominant and could be considered favorites over the Lakers... BUT WITH A HEALTHY OSCAR! In fact a couple of months ago I compiled some data on the Bucks play with and without the Big O in the regular season.

Bucks With Oscar (62 games)

50-12 record (66-win pace)
MOV of 12.87 (NBA Record pace by far )

Bucks Without Oscar (20 games)

*this includes 18 games he completely missed, the one he got injured in on Feb. 4 vs LA and the game on Feb 18 against Philly where he tried playing but was a complete shell and then took off two more weeks after

13-7 record (53-win pace)
MOV of 3.75

Quite a dramatic difference don't you think. The only reason the Bucks could stay afloat and still be a very good team without Oscar is Kareem's insane level of play. In those aforementioned 20 games without the Big O Kareem averaged:

39.5 ppg, 16.8 rpg, 5.6 apg on 58.7 %FG/73.7 %FT

We are missing rebounds, assists, and FG% in 2 or 3 games but that's insane!

You won't find many if any 20-game stretches more dominant than that in NBA history. Included there was a 50-pointer on Wilt and two 50-pointers on Dave Cowens.

Oscar of course was a complete shell in the playoffs because of his abdominal strain including the WCF against the Lakers.





To make matters worse two key back-up guards John McGlocklin (4th best player) and Wali Jones were completely useless because of injuries with Jon missing a few games in the WCF as well.

Here is an article link that highlights the Bucks' injuries:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...g=6971,1413423

Realistically speaking, Kareem (while himself fighting a leg injury) put together a heroic performance in the '72 WCF. 33.7 ppg, 17.5 rpg, 4.8 apg, and probably 4-5 bpg as well. He did shoot 45.7% (major credit to Wilt's defense...) but he did so on over 30 field goal attempts! He had to shoot a lot because of so many injuries. And with so many shots and such a brutal defensive series that's a solid FG% regardless...

The Bucks should have been obliterated by the Lakers considering their state of injuries. They had a hobbled Oscar and Lucious Allen going up against West and Goodrich. McMillian was shooting the lights out and Hairston was outplaying Curtis Perry... The only reason the series was close was Kareem's play.

The original thread can be found at http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...=322217&page=5.

[Roundball_Rock]

On to 72-73...

I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Even though Dandridge was injured and played subpar Kareem should have played better against the Warriors. He did easily outplay Nate individually but he could have done more.


In 73-74 however... Oscar again had a back injury 34 games into the season and was never the same. Let's compare:

First 34 Games with a Healthy Oscar

Oscar: 15.4 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 6.9 apg on 45.0 %FG/84.4 %FT
Bucks Record: 27-7 (65 win pace)
Bucks MOV: 12.21 (WOW!)

Next 48 Games

Oscar: 10.1 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 5.8 apg on 42.6 %FG/82.4 %FT
Bucks Record: 32-16 (55 win pace)
Bucks MOV: 5.08

In the playoffs Oscar averaged a resurgent 14.0 ppg and 9.3 apg on 45.0% shooting through injury but in the Finals against a tough-nosed Celtics backcourt of White and Chaney the going was much tougher.

Bucks also missed starting SG Lucious Allen to injury. He was DNP for the entire playoffs.

Kareem was a beast in the '74 Finals averaging 32.6 ppg, 12.1 rpg, and 5.4 apg on 52.4% shooting for the series . He won 2 games by blocking a Cowens shot in Game 2 and then swishing a skyhook in Game 6. Coach Tom Heinsohn decided to change strategy and double and triple Kareem in Game 7 instead of going man-to-man with Cowens as he had for the first 6 games.

Poor Oscar averaged just 12.1 ppg, 3.7 rpg, and 8.1 apg on 43.2% shooting in the Finals including a 6 points Game 7 on 2-13 shooting.

Don't forget those Celtics were coming off of a dominant 68-win season the year before. There is no way anyone could consider the Bucks without Lucious Allen and a declining Oscar better than those Celtics.

Again without Kareem's dominant play and winning 2 games with clutch plays the series probably ends in 4-5 games in favor of Boston. Positions 1 through 4 the Celtics just outclassed the Bucks.

JoJo > Oscar
Chaney > McGlocklin
Hondo >> Dandridge
Silas > Perry


In 74-75 Oscar was retired, Lucious Allen missed 72 games, and yet Kareem kept the Bucks afloat. In the games he played healthy the Bucks were 35-30 (44 win pace). In the game he missed (plus the game he got injured in) Bucks were 3-14 (14 win pace). He was worth 30 extra wins to his team. I don't know what else to say.

Part 3 coming up next.

[ArbitraryWater]

Arguable GOAT

[Roundball_Rock]

In 75-76 Kareem was on his new team. It was a terrible roster of aging players and just scoring guards. Funny thing is despite going 40-42 the Lakers missed the playoffs to a 38-win and 36-win teams because of dumb seeding. LA had a 4th best record and 3rd best SRS in the conference but they were only 3rd in their own division.

Also Kareem that year led the league in rebounding, blocks, and his defensive impact was off the charts. He had a DRtg of 90 compared to team DRtg of 98.8 (13th of 18 teams). With him on the floor LA had the best defensive team in the league (DRtg of 90 would be #1 in the league...) and without him on the floor they were probably close to last.


In 76-77 you correctly stated that Kareem outplayed Walton while his own teammates were outplay by Portland's. There is no need to add anything here. There is Game 2 and Game 4 of that series on YT for everyone to see.


In 77-78 Kareem can be blamed for stupidly losing his cool and punching Kent Benson. However we see a same old familiar trend with his team. When Kareem was playing healthy the Lakers were 37-24 (50 win pace) and without him they were 8-13 (31 win pace).

That look like a good team but honestly they were NOT. There was no one who defended or rebounded well other than Kareem. 21 year old Dantley "the cancer", rookie 22 year old Nixon, and super old declining Lou Hudson who was no longer a good player. Wilkes was solid but he played PF out of position as he did the next year.

In the playoffs against the Sonics Kareem had a fairly good series. In a Game 2 win he had 20 points in the 2nd half including 5 blocks in the 4th quarter. In the decisive Game 3 he had a 33/11 game but it was never close.


In 78-79 the Lakers like in 77-78 were simply atrocious as far as perimeter defense and team rebounding. Take a look at these numbers containing the rebounding numbers of the 78-79 and 79-80. Note that Kareem actually rebounded better in 78-79 so it's obvious the difference is from his teammates.



With such terrible rebounding margins it's a miracle the Lakers could win as much as they did. The Nuggets outrebounded them by 7.3 boards a game but Kareem was a monster in that series averaging 28.0 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 5.0 apg, 5.0 bpg on 61.5 %FG and hit a game-winning shot in Game 3.

Against the Sonics they were outrebounded by 13.2 a game!! Kareem had another great series with 28.8 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 4.6 apg, 3.6 bpg on 56.0 %FG. Despite the 4-1 result it was pretty close. 2 games were decided in OT and another came down to Nixon missing a game-winning shot.

Another problem apart form rebounding is the Sonics' 3-headed dragon of Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, and Fred Brown averaged about 60 ppg in that series. They completely and totally obliterated Laker guards Norm Nixon, Ron Boone (scrub) and Don Ford (scrub) beyond any recognition.

In 79-80 Kareem didn't play any better against Seattle. He was just as dominant in both years but LA easily beat them in '80. Difference is now they outrebounded Seattle by 3.8 a game. Dantley was replaced by Chones/Haywood who rebounded and Cooper was worked into the rotation which helped defend the Seattle guards.

The LA offense (and defense of course) changed remarkably little with Magic's arrival. If anything he helped them most on the boards.

dankok8!

[Uncle Drew]

2nd greatest to ever play, slightly behind Lew Alcindor.

[fpliii]

2nd greatest to ever play, slightly behind Lew Alcindor.

[Uncle Drew]

Yeah, I know what you're thinking. I just liked him better when he was still Alcindor.

[fpliii]

Yeah, I know what you're thinking. I just liked him better when he was still Alcindor.

Remember this thread?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=317475

I know Laz, PHILA, and a few others are a big fan of young Kareem (Alcindor days) too. Dude was super mobile.

[SHAQisGOAT]

MY goodness GOAT center, #2 all-time, top5 peak. He was a monster, especially in 77

[Milbuck]

In those games without the Big O Kareem averaged:

39.5 ppg, 16.8 rpg, 5.6 apg on 58.7 %FG/73.7 %FT

[JellyBean]

props, dankok8 and Roundball_Rock

[juju151111]

Wow great #2 Goat

[Roundball_Rock]

Thanks. Te be clear, this thread is not intended to argue that Kareem is the GOAT. The purpose of the thread is to help put his career in context and help combat some of the myths. It seems all a lot of people know is "Kareem only won 1 ring before Magic" but when you look at the details it is not surprising why. Kareem clearly held up his end of the bargain.

e was a monster, especially in 77

Some of those games are available on YT. For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIDn1...533C6EE172C622 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIDn1...533C6EE172C622

[knicksman]

2 rings at most as the man. jordan at age 32 has 4 rings compared to his 2 rings. LOL for a supposed to be dominant.

[Artillery]

Weakest era in NBA history. Not to mention Kareem's defense was average(which might explain why his teams were so poor defensively)