Bird or Magic?

[juju151111]

And the Lakers lost to the Rockets in 81 in the first round. The same team that the Celtics beat, with less talent on his team.

It goes both ways. But Magic was a great player in his own right, so it's very close and you can argue either or. Magic is a very hard person to guard, and is the GOAT PG. Magic was more efficient than Bird too.

Magic injured year. Just like Bird fans don't want anyone to use a season pass 87. 81 Magic was out 100 days

[Psileas]

In 1981 as the defending champions, the Lakers lost in the first round with home court advantage to a sub .500 Rockets team. Magic shot 38% for the series. I am not implying Magic is a bad postseason performer, but neither is Bird and for the entire duration of their careers both of them have a relatively equal per game average for their playoffs as opposed to regular season. The post you copy and pasted is merely some guy nitpicking choosing what statistics benefit him in his attempt to try and undervalue Bird.

Nitpicking? Says the guy who tried to claim that Bird would never choke in the playoffs, by, no surprise, nitpicking through contrasting with a best of 3 series (young/prime Magic's worst series by far) and a series when Magic played great all-around ball, but failed in the clutch. You even came up with McHale's "Tragic Johnson" quote (more nitpicking, taking a quote of a specific player and attributing it to "people"/"fans" in general - it did become more popular for a short time, but it weren't people in general that came up with it). Then followed a post that completely nullified the supposed "Bird never choked" myth, which you tried to disregard by using excuses like "it only shows the Celtics lost when Bird played bad", which sounds a lot better than "it only shows that Bird also choked".

[Psileas]

Oh, and Magic did not surpass Bird when Bird started getting injury problems. Bird's 1987 regular season easily ranks among his finest, and Magic still easily won the MVP. It wasn't the first season when Magic overall performed better, but various factors like Kareem's presence or Magic's fading popularity in 1981 and early 1982 were convincing people that Bird was better night in and night out in their first 7 years in the league.

[jlauber]

Oh, and Magic did not surpass Bird when Bird started getting injury problems. Bird's 1987 regular season easily ranks among his finest, and Magic still easily won the MVP. It wasn't the first season when Magic overall performed better, but various factors like Kareem's presence or Magic's fading popularity in 1981 and early 1982 were convincing people that Bird was better night in and night out in their first 7 years in the league.

I have long maintained that Magic was ROBBED of an MVP in his 81-82 season. He averaged a near triple-double, in a season in which he SHARED his PG duties, and then duplicated those numbers in the post-season, en route to running away with his second Finals MVP.

Kareem took votes away from Magic in the first half of Magic's career, (even though Magic outvoted Kareem in all of their last eight seasons in the NBA together.)

And it is truly LAUGHABLE that Magic was labeled "Tragic" in a Finals in which he averaged 18-8-14 and shot .560, which was nearly a 100 points higher than Bird and Kareem shot. And in the two games that Magic supposedly "choked" (not counting game seven when Bird was just as crappy), Magic 23.5 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 13.0 apg, and shot, get this, .692 from the floor. IMHO, MAGIC was the BEST player on the floor in the '84 Finals. "Tragic" Johnson...what a complete JOKE.

[OldSchoolBBall]

And it is truly LAUGHABLE that Magic was labeled "Tragic" in a Finals in which he averaged 18-8-14 and shot .560, which was nearly a 100 points higher than Bird and Kareem shot. And in the two games that Magic supposedly "choked" (not counting game seven when Bird was just as crappy), Magic 23.5 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 13.0 apg, and shot, get this, .692 from the floor. IMHO, MAGIC was the BEST player on the floor in the '84 Finals. "Tragic" Johnson...what a complete JOKE.

This is why he earned the "Tragic Johnson" moniker:

[quote=Sports Illustrated]Late in games during the championship series, the CBS announcing team would make the obligatory comments about how players like Magic love such moments. Yet, time and time again, we saw evidence of Magic's distaste for them.

Game Two: Magic becomes catatonic with the ball on the wing, dribbling out the last 10 seconds of regulation while ostensibly looking for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in the low post. L.A. doesn't even get off a final shot in a game it will lose in overtime.

Game Four: The Lakers bollix up a chance to win on their last possession in regulation when Robert Parish intercepts Magic's pass to James Worthy. L.A. loses in OT again

[jlauber]

This is why he earned the "Tragic Johnson" moniker:



You can put up fantastic numbers, but if you epic fail in the clutch this many times in one series, often with inexplicably bad plays, that will bring scrutiny upon any great player.

Once again, you are overlooking the numbers from those two games. 23.5 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 13.0 apg, and an incredible .692 from the field.

How about the MVP Bird in that series? In a solid game one loss, he goes 7-17 from the floor. In that game two OT WIN, he shot 8-22 from the floor.

In a game three blowout loss, 137-104, he puts up very good numbers (30 points on 9-16 shooting.)

In the game four OT WIN, he shoots a horrible 9-24 from the floor. With the score tied at 113-113 in regulation, he misses a shot with 4 secs left that would have won the game.

He does play brilliantly in a game five solid win, with 34 points on 15-20 shooting (interesting that his best games came in blowouts, whether they be wins or losses...and his worst games in close wins.)

In a solid game six loss, Bird once again has a very good game, scoring 28 points on 8-11 shooting (see the pattern here.)

And in game seven, while everyone was blaming Magic, Bird quietly goes 6-18 from the floor.

Granted Bird rebounded well, BUT, so did Magic (again, he LED LA in rebounding), and Magic was brilliant with 13.6 apg.

And the reality was, had Worthy, who also played exceptionally well (11-12 from the floor) in game two, just handed the ball to Magic, the Lakers would have won that series in six games. And had he not missed a FT late in game four, (and Magic missed two), the Lakers would have SWEPT Boston.

Oh, and BTW, how about Kareem in game five? 7-25 shooting and pounded by Parish on the glass, 12-7.

Of course, everyone knows that Magic hit that "baby hook" in Boston, to win game four of the '87 Finals, but how many are aware that Bird missed an open shot at the buzzer that would have won the game for Boston.

Or that Bird shot .488, .449 and .445 in his three Finals against LA.

[Micku]

Magic injured year. Just like Bird fans don't want anyone to use a season pass 87. 81 Magic was out 100 days

Bird was also injured in 83 when they got swept by the Bucks. Plus most of the team revolted against coach Fitch:

"No one listens when you yell," Parish said. "K.C.'s a players' coach. He knows when to let up. And he takes suggestions. He doesn't yell much, but when he does, sometimes you want to leave the room.

http://articles.philly.com/1986-05-3...eltics-coach/2

With that said, I can understand why Magic would be considered better than Bird. Magic was more efficient, had more success in the playoffs, and less injury prone. And I could understand Bird being better than Magic, seeing how far he took the Celts in the early 80s, being more skilled and having the better peak possibly, and was the man since day one.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Once again, you are overlooking the numbers from those two games. 23.5 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 13.0 apg, and an incredible .692 from the field.

You're not understanding that he didn't earn the "Tragic Johnson" tag due to his OVERALL play in the series, but due to his play IN THE CLUTCH. Look at how much Lebron is vilified nowadays for much the same reason - and he didn't/doesn't (generally) even mess up in the clutch, he just becomes passive. Magic made 4-5 costly errors/missed shots in clutch moments of one Finals series. Any superstar would be derided for that, rightly or wrongly.

[juju151111]

You're not understanding that he didn't earn the "Tragic Johnson" tag due to his OVERALL play in the series, but due to his play IN THE CLUTCH. Look at how much Lebron is vilified nowadays for much the same reason - and he didn't/doesn't (generally) even mess up in the clutch, he just becomes passive. Magic made 4-5 costly errors/missed shots in clutch moments of one Finals series. Any superstar would be derided for that, rightly or wrongly.

LJ got heat because he played like garbage the whole not just in the clutch.

[Champ]

I have long maintained that Magic was ROBBED of an MVP in his 81-82 season. He averaged a near triple-double, in a season in which he SHARED his PG duties, and then duplicated those numbers in the post-season, en route to running away with his second Finals MVP.

Kareem took votes away from Magic in the first half of Magic's career, (even though Magic outvoted Kareem in all of their last eight seasons in the NBA together.)

You could just as easily argue that Bird was robbed in the 80-81 season.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Magic was ballin outta control in 1982. 18.6 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 9.5 apg, 2.7 spg. Finals MVP. Lord have mercy.

[Hoopz2332]

I find it funny people are mentioning tragic John.son because of one playoffs. That one playoffs wasn't even that bad anyways. Bird had plenty of years choking his ass in the playoffs

all of a sudden people are acting like Bird never laid eggs in the playoffs

[colts19]

Oh, you mean when Magic came in the league and won Finals MVP, playing all 5 positions, and winning despite Kareem being injured?

Magic put up 42/15/7/3/1 in Game 6 to win the title. Take a while to soak in those numbers, then realize this was his rookie season.

Yea, no question that Magic came up big when it mattered the most.

Yea and Bird won rookie of the year vote 63 to 3. Bird was considered the better player through their first 7 or 8 years.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Bird. Better defensively. Comparable passer without needing ball in his hands. Definitely tougher.

[Round Mound]

Similar to the Charles Barkley vs Karl Malone threads since both Bird and Chuck where Better Before Injuries. Barkley had a Better Peak and Malone had a Better Career. Chuck was Better from 85 to 95 and Malone was Better from 96 to 00. Bird was Better From 79 to 86, Magic Was Better From 87 to 92.