I Challenge Anyone To Validate Kobe's Greatness As An All-Time Great Post Shaq Era

[DreamRockets]

Some people are just so damn stupid. How can you blame a guy for having Shaq on this team? You can basically make up this same bull**** about anyone:

lets see:

-Steve Nash has never won a title despite being on loaded teams.

which is why nash isnt one of the greatest players to ever play the game, plus he didnt have a prime shaq, plus no one is saying nash is better than kobe, because well, he isn't.

-Jordan has never won a title without Pippen.

true but jordan was the driving force in those teams, MJ rarely EVER played poorly in the playoffs and finals which scottie did quite oftenly.

-Shaq has never won without a superstar SG.

same as MJ but not to the same exent because shaq's superstar sidekicks have been better than pippen, they have bailed out shaq more than pippen ever bailed jordan (which was pretty much once in game 6 nba finals 1992)

[Brunch@Five]

russell, wilt, robertson, larry, moses, karl malone, hakeem, isiah, kareem, shaq, duncan, magic, mikan (not more talented, but deffinitelly dominated more than kobe as number 1), reed, drob, hondo, pettit, Drj, MJ, then you can argue west, baylor, barkley, ewing, Kg, dirk (right now), hayes, etc (even though i disagree with the last list except maybe hayes)

The only thing Malone has on Bryant is longevity. Kobe will surpass him by the end of his career.
Reed over Bryant?
David Robinson? no way. He was a great center in his day, but isn't even top5 all time at that position, 7th at best. He won his rings as a role player, Kobe did so as a superstar.
How is DrJ over him? If you include ABA, yes, but ABA does not count when talking about NBA All-Time
What has West done to be rated over Kobe? lose 7 finals?
Barkley is on par with Kobe, not necessarily better.
Ewing is not better.
KG is about on his level right now, but I'd prefer Kobe.
Dirk? I'm a big fan, but you cannot rate him over Kobe.
Hayes was a nice player, but didn't do anything really but pile up stats.

That leaves 18 players to definitely be rated over Kobe. And by the end of his career Kobe will most likely have surpassed some of those.

[L.Kizzle]

russell, wilt, robertson, larry, moses, karl malone, hakeem, isiah, kareem, shaq, duncan, magic, mikan (not more talented, but deffinitelly dominated more than kobe as number 1), reed, drob, hondo, pettit, Drj, MJ, then you can argue west, baylor, barkley, ewing, Kg, dirk (right now), hayes, etc (even though i disagree with the last list except maybe hayes)

All of those players I would take over Kobe except KG and Dirk.'

You can add to the list Drexler, Rick Barry, Walt Frazier and Kevin Duckworth.

[PleezeBelieve]

going on 30 and hasn't made it out of the first round on his own? that statement basically blames bryant for the fact that he joined a shaq-led team as a rookie. it's not his fault he played next to the greatest center of a generation for the first 7 years of his career. in his three years since shaq left he hasn't made it out of the first round. so what? the west has been a beast, and his team has been marginal, especially before phil came back. actually, jordan won an mvp before he made it out of the first round (he got past the cavs on "the shot" that same year). i'm not saying that kobe's the best in the league, but i know you can't totally discredit him because he hasn't won a playoff round without shaq. he played his role brilliantly on those three title teams, executing the offense as needed, and killing teams at the end of games as shaq's free throw problems reduced his effectiveness. anyway, at least the lakers aren't dominating the finals anymore

For the purposes of this thread, I don't care about what he did or did not do during those years. All I care what he is doing now, during the apex of his career physically. If you want to bring in his Shaq years then he isn't even in the top-50, IMO. Sidekicks don't have that sort of privileges. Pippen only gets in on the strength of 6 rings and being a better overall sidekick than kobe was with Shaq.

But regardless, stop trying to deflect the intention of this thread. We are focusing on Kobe's solo years, and all the career defining moments that come along with that. And IMO, this era has been more non-descriptive than overly impressive. 35 ppg? So what, we all knew he was a great scorer. What about rings? That is what needs to be answered, my friend.

[LakersDynasty]

Drexler over Kobe? Kevin Duckworth? Frazier? Are you guys nuts?

[Noob Saibot]

KG is about on his level right now, but I'd prefer Kobe

KG for me, don't you play NBA Live? Best rating in the game.

[malek4980]

Bryant easily is top 25 all time. I'd go as far as to say that he's the second best SG to ever play the game. Yes, better than West. Better than Drexler. Better than Gervin.

Kobe is not better than West. Gervin? Probably. Drexler? Yeah.

[L.Kizzle]

Drexler over Kobe? Kevin Duckworth? Frazier? Are you guys nuts?

Kevin Duckworth was a joke.

[bleedinpurple]

Some people are just so damn stupid. How can you blame a guy for having Shaq on this team? You can basically make up this same bull**** about anyone:

-Steve Nash has never won a title despite being on loaded teams.
-Jordan has never won a title without Pippen.
-Shaq has never won without a superstar SG.

See how dumb that sounds?

Good point.
Stockton is not among the greatest ever.
Malone is not among the greatest.
AI isn't either.
Silly thread...but at least it generates lots of debate. Just goes to show there is still great interest in Kobe (love him or hate him).

[SsKSpurs21]

The only thing Malone has on Bryant is longevity. Kobe will surpass him by the end of his career.
Reed over Bryant?
David Robinson? no way. He was a great center in his day, but isn't even top5 all time at that position, 7th at best. He won his rings as a role player, Kobe did so as a superstar.
How is DrJ over him? If you include ABA, yes, but ABA does not count when talking about NBA All-Time
What has West done to be rated over Kobe? lose 7 finals?
Barkley is on par with Kobe, not necessarily better.
Ewing is not better.
KG is about on his level right now, but I'd prefer Kobe.
Dirk? I'm a big fan, but you cannot rate him over Kobe.
Hayes was a nice player, but didn't do anything really but pile up stats.

That leaves 18 players to definitely be rated over Kobe. And by the end of his career Kobe will most likely have surpassed some of those.

DRob was a league MVP, rebounding title, scoring title. he also led the spurs to the best record of 60-22 in the nba in 95 with a supporting cast consisting of sean elliot, vinny del negro, chuck person and avery johnson.

[Vendetta]

Shaq, MJ, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Johnson, Barkley, Olajuwon, Jabbar, Duncan, Malone, Malone, Robertson, Garnett, Payton, McGrady (yep, **** you), Thomas, Stockton, Pippen...

I'm sure there's a lot more old timers that deserve to be on the list ahead of Kobe & probably some I forgot but I haven't been watching basketball but for only about 13-14 years so I can't really say for sure who else...

[Skywalker]

shaq was asking for 35 mil PER year

... I never knew this.... or I just forgot .... w/e the case, that's INSANE.

btw, anyone arguing Kobe is not top 10, and somone saying they could seriously believing they coudl name 30-40 better should be ILLEGAL

[Soccer10]

Kobe is top 25.
Right now there isn't a guy who's clearly the best in the league but most people consider Kobe the best for many reasons. Kobe's probably the best but it's not like he's much better than other people.

[hateraid]

This thread proves there are a ton of delusional people on ISH, and I won't tell you which side I'm speaking on behalf of.

[Indian guy]

Let's see...35 ppg(30 ****ING 5 PPG!) and leading a very average and young team to the playoffs in a tough conference. I'd say that's pretty good. He's also putting another great year this season: 29/5/5 and the 6th seed despite major injuries to a bunch of key players.

Look, nobody's saying Kobe's the undisputed best in the league but to deny his greatness is pure hating. What do you want the guy to do?