Kobe: the only top 10 player never top 2 in PER or WS

[OldSchoolBBall]

I find it interesting that Kobe is the only top 10 player of all-time (which I concede he is - I have him around #9, behind Duncan/Shaq and ahead of Hakeem) who has never finished top 2 even a single time in PER or Win Shares. Now, these metrics have flaws obviously, but does anyone else really think it's a coincidence that EVERY other top 10 player of all time has finished at least top 2 in the league in one of these metrics at least once? Let's take a look at the counts for the top 10 players of all time:

Jordan - 7x leader in PER (3x second in PER), 9x leader in WS (2x second in WS)
Kareem - 9x leader in PER (3x second in PER), 9x leader in WS (1x second in WS)
Wilt - 8x leader in PER (2x second in PER), 8x leader in WS (3x second in WS)
Magic - 1x second in PER, 1x second in WS
Bird - 2x leader in PER (2x second in PER), 2x leader in WS (2x second in WS)
Russell - 2x second in WS
Shaq - 5x leader in PER (3x second in PER), 2x leader in WS (3x second in WS)
Hakeem - 1x second in PER, 1x second in WS
Duncan - 4x second in PER, 2x leader in WS
Kobe - BUBKES

Now, what is interesting to note is that a couple of the top 10 didn't have many top finishes in PER or WS - namely, Magic and Russell. This is easily explainable, however, because PER is notorious for underrating pass-first PG's. Despite this, Magic has as many top 3 finishes in PER as Kobe, and more top 3 finishes in WS than Kobe (4 vs. 0 for Kobe - the best Kobe ever finished is 4th). In Russell's case, it's because his impact was largely defensive, and PER doesn't adequately capture defensive impact. Also, both Magic and Russell were perhaps the two greatest "intangibles" guys ever, inspiring their teammates to play at a high level at all times and maximizing team success; PER doesn't measure intangibles. Kobe is not, by anyone's account, a huge intangibles guy like Magic/Russell, nor is he a player whose impact is primarily defensive, like Russell; nor is he a pass-first PG who is undervalued by PER like Magic.

In fact, Kobe is precisely the type of player which PER tends to favor (volume scorer), yet despite this, all he has to show for himself are two top 3 finishes in PER and a few top 4 finishes in WS. On top of that, it should be noted that one does not need to be on a good team (in terms of W-L record) to finish top 2 in WS - I just wanted to preempt that argument. Jordan finished #1 in WS on sub-50 win teams, as did Wilt, KAJ, and others. Again, Kobe has never finished better than 4th in WS.

Discuss.


Editor's Note: This holds for EFF also. Kobe is the only top 10 player aside from Russell (and again, EFF doesn't measure defensive impact or intangibles AT ALL) to never lead the league in EFF even once. Every stat just seems to have a vendetta against this guy for whatever reason. Go figure.

[blablabla]

kevin love > kobe

[The_Yearning]

That is what makes Kobe so great. Nobody can figure him out on the court or on paper.

[Javat_90]

That is what makes Kobe is great. Nobody can figure him out on the court or on paper.

[ashbelly]

That is what makes Kobe is great. Nobody can figure him out on the court or on paper.

maybe because he's not that great after all ?. he's teams >>>>>>>> . thats why he's on that list.

[glidedrxlr22]

I find it interesting that Kobe is the only top 10 player of all-time (which I concede he is - I have him around #9, behind Duncan/Shaq and ahead of Hakeem) who has never finished top 2 even a single time in PER or Win Shares. Now, these metrics have flaws obviously, but does anyone else really think it's a coincidence that EVERY other top 10 player of all time has finished at least top 2 in the league in one of these metrics at least once?

Laker/Kobe stans will vehemently throw out anything in your post. They

[Doranku]

What's the point of this thread? You say yourself that you have him at #9, so why do these arbitrary stats matter?

[B]

Must be a thread around here giving Kobe props, OP felt the need to drum up the same tired post again.

[necya]

top 10 all time only on ISH. the dude is one of the most overrated player.

[OldSchoolBBall]

What's the point of this thread? You say yourself that you have him at #9, so why do these arbitrary stats matter?

You know very well why it matters. Because certain (very vocal) people try to make him into something he isn't, and refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation.

[Doranku]

top 10 all time only on ISH. the dude is one of the most overrated player.

Actually ISH is one of the only places where Kobe's top 10 status is argued. The vast majority of logical fans on non-troll boards have Kobe at either 9 or 10.

[B]

You know very well why it matters. Because certain (very vocal) people try to make him into something he isn't, and refuse to acknowledge MY reality of the situation.

Fixed

[OldSchoolBBall]

[QUOTE=B

[DRose1899]

K. Love > Kobe

[LEFT4DEAD]

Stats are huge part of today's perception of basketball. My opinion is that Kobe will be falling on all time lists of new generation of fans big time just because of stats like this ( even though I think these stats are fair when it comes to comparation of all time greats).