What if Kobe never existed?

[HOoopCityJones]

ISH woudn't be here for starters and you all wouldn't have anything to bitch about.

[ISHGoat]

kobe without shaq

3 nba finals
2 nba titles
2 nba finals mvps
1 nba mvp
2 scoring titles
8 first team all nba's
6 first team all defense

best team mate = top 97th all time pau gasol



shaq without kobe

2 nba finals
1 nba title
0 nba finals mvps
0 nba mvp's
1 scoring title
2 first team all nba's
0 first team all defense ( 0 with kobe anyway )

best team mates = top 11-12 all time lebron james, top 25 all time dwyane wade, top 25 all time garnett, top 35 all time steve nash, top 35 all time paul pierce, top 40 all time ray allen, 1st team all nba penny hardaway

Here bro, take this

[ISHGoat]

so you cant dispute anything and keep spamming smileys as a response. only way i'd expect you to reply honestly. you lack creativity/intelligence

its pretty much documented that kobe stans are generally women or dudes majoring in liberal arts or some shit. Aka illogical. There is no point debating with irrational people.

[kennethgriffin]

Here bro, take this

na man na... this is what its all about


































https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tOsQv-rrEE


GOT EEEM

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm assuming if the Lakers never got Kobe they'd seek out a perimeter sidekick for Shaq, maybe trade for or sign a top 15 caliber player to be their second option. If so, they'd almost certainly still win a ring in '00, and while they wouldn't come close to their 15-1 record, they'd still win a ring in '01 as well. In '02 unless that player was averaging 25 ppg, the Lakers would lose to either the Spurs or Kings that year. So imo 2 rings with the Lakers and 1 with the Heat, so he'd have 1 less ring, 1 less Finals MVP

[tpols]

Portland and kings would have rings.. depending on who they brought aboard shaq might get one in 2001. and then another with wade so he'd have maybe 1 or 2 rings.

Shaq cant win with just a run of the mill all star like Eddie jones or penny.. he needs a bonfide top 5 player all time for his position to win.. Aka wade and kObe. He needs closers and take over players to seal the deal otherwise it'll be some pretty 30/15 statline with a sweep

[mehyaM24]

Shaq would still collude with some other sg and win.

don't know about colluding, but ya, shaq would with any other sg. very true.

without big men, the farthest kobe has been during the postseason, was a first round exit. otoh, shaq had multiple conference finals appearances and a finals trip.

it stands to reason, considering shaq was the RAPM king from 98-05 (kobe has never led the league in RAPM, which measures impact AND is used by gms, coaches and analysts all over the league) that he would in fact have multiple rings and still be a top 5 goat.

[scm5]

Shaq would probably have one or two rings less without Kobe.

Gasol would likely have no rings, but would have found a place on another team and helped make at least a contender and gained the recognition he should have.

I actually would like to think that Memphis would have somehow gotten Marc Gasol to pair with Pau. If that happened, Pau would definitely have a shot at winning championships. Multiple even!

[tpols]

I'm assuming if the Lakers never got Kobe they'd seek out a perimeter sidekick for Shaq, maybe trade for or sign a top 15 caliber player to be their second option. If so, they'd almost certainly still win a ring in '00, and while they wouldn't come close to their 15-1 record, they'd still win a ring in '01 as well. In '02 unless that player was averaging 25 ppg, the Lakers would lose to either the Spurs or Kings that year. So imo 2 rings with the Lakers and 1 with the Heat, so he'd have 1 less ring, 1 less Finals MVP

In 2000 they were on the ropes in the wcf.. there's no "certainly" about coming back double digits in the 4th Q of a game 7. The exact opposite really. .

They had a higher chance winning 2002 than 2000 actually.. but both were won by the slimmest of margins

[ISHGoat]

ITT: kobe stans arguing that shaq got carried by kobe. You guys dont even know how silly it sounds.

[SouBeachTalents]

In 2000 they were on the ropes in the wcf.. there's no "certainly" about coming back double digits in the 4th Q of a game 7. The exact opposite really. .

They had a higher chance winning 2002 than 2000 actually.. but both were won by the slimmest of margins

While I won't necessarily dispute your first point, maybe that series doesn't even go 7 games with a different SG. Kobe averaged 17 ppg on 41% through the first 5 games of that series, rather mediocre. Maybe if that player was putting up 20 on 45% instead they close it out in 5 games

[dubeta]

League Wide FG% would increase by 3

[kamil]

They would still win their rings, but one thing does change: one less white girl raped in colorado

[tpols]

While I won't necessarily dispute your first point, maybe that series doesn't even go 7 games with a different SG. Kobe averaged 17 ppg on 41% through the first 5 games of that series, rather mediocre. Maybe if that player was putting up 20 on 45% instead they close it out in 5 games

Why would you say maybe the Lakers could've won in less than 7.. and then cut out kobes game 6 and only use games 1-5 stats? Seems a little dishonest when that game 6 would drastically improve his averages no?

That's an extremely simplistic way of looking at things as well.. kobe had 21 ppg on 45% shooting in 99.. guess what? Lakers got swept.

Penny Hardaway once averaged 26ppg on 47% shooting..... another sweep.


You can't just add a couple ppg to helps average and say a team certainly would've won especially given the fact that they had loads of trouble as it was and the player you're replacing is better than his replaceMent. Logic says that they'd almost certainly lose.

[mehyaM24]

I'm assuming if the Lakers never got Kobe they'd seek out a perimeter sidekick for Shaq, maybe trade for or sign a top 15 caliber player to be their second option. If so, they'd almost certainly still win a ring in '00, and while they wouldn't come close to their 15-1 record, they'd still win a ring in '01 as well. In '02 unless that player was averaging 25 ppg, the Lakers would lose to either the Spurs or Kings that year. So imo 2 rings with the Lakers and 1 with the Heat, so he'd have 1 less ring, 1 less Finals MVP

agreed. 2000 was the easiest to replace because kobe was a mere role player in the finals (outscored by austin croshere, who averaged ~15ppg).

http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt...-informed.html - just check the RPI version, which is basically PURE rapm.

kobe's overall impact in 2000 was nowhere close to the top 10, so if shaq had more help during the playoffs, or say, a vince carter/eddie jones, 2 of the highest impact guards at that time? the lakers would have taken care of phoenix, sacramento, portland & indiana much quicker & in a more dominating fashion (makes this interesting, because neither of those guys are HOFers or in the top 50).