The 00's = the death of defense in the NBA? No contact league?

[bruceblitz]

The death of defense?
by Roland Lazenby / October 20, 2006

[bruceblitz]

All anyone really needs to do is look at the numbers as soon as hand-checking was eliminated in 2005. You have 4 players today who have had 60+pt games since then - all perimeters - AI, Gil, KB, Tmac. Before 2005, the only active player with a 60pt game was Shaq. It remains the single biggest change in the general play of the game and it's why Winter hates it. Check that, Tmac's 62 came just before the total elimination of hand-check - but remember, hand-checking was already curtailed in '94 from the backcourt to the opposite line because the NBA panicked after MJ suddenly retired. So you have 1 active perimeter today and Shaq who scored 60+ before the toal riddance of hand-checking in 2005. Of course, we all know what happened to the top scoring averages of the perimeters after 2005. For the first time in 30 years, you had 3 scorers over 30ppg in one year and they were all perimeters. 9 of the top 10 scorers were perimeters (except Dirk but he's plays perimeter too). The shift towards perimeter scoring became massive, inefficient and downright absurd. Notice that without handchecking, you see guys a lot farther away from the ball handler and as a result you see more short players shooting over tall players than ever before.

[Scott Pippen]

I believe this article has been posted before, but this is the one that Tex Winter nailed.

As a result, defense now becomes a matter of waiting for the offensive player to make a mistake, rather than forcing a turnover, Winter said.

At least this has improved last year with the Celtics and their KG/Tom. T addittion. I have never seen a team better at forcing TO's and capitalizing on them the the Bulls with the 2 dobermans. Cannot go wrong with any of the championship teams in my opinion (when healthy).

[Fatal9]

It is easy to hand pick youtube videos, use anecdotes and say MJ or Kobe or Lebron have faced the tougher defenses (something that only trolls like KB42PAH and loki resort to).

Lately I've been finding the Jordan diehards are getting a little too carried away with their own revisionist histories. So lets look at the one of the most accurate stats when it comes to team defense and how it has varied from Jordan's era to this one; the defensive rating, which is points allowed by a team per 100 possessions. Three points to consider:

1. The Spurs last year had a better defensive ratings than the Pistons D from '88-90, the Knicks D in 92-93, 94-95, 95-96.
2. The Celtics last year and Pistons in '03-'04 had a better defensive rating than any team Jordan has ever faced.
3. The teams Jordan has faced in the finals (6) have had a defense rating of 104.6, the teams Kobe has faced in the finals (5) have had a rating of 99.2 and the Spurs had a rating of 99.9 when Lebron faced them. These are just staggering numbers.

I am a Jordan fan myself and consider it unquestionable as to who the GOAT is, but the "defense was stifling back then" myth needs to end.

[Abraham Lincoln]

It is easy to hand pick youtube videos, use anecdotes and say MJ or Kobe or Lebron have faced the tougher defenses (something that only trolls like KB42PAH and loki resort to).

Lately I've been finding the Jordan diehards are getting a little too carried away with their own revisionist histories. So lets look at the one of the most accurate stats when it comes to team defense and how it has varied from Jordan's era to this one; the defensive rating, which is points allowed by a team per 100 possessions. Three points to consider:

1. The Spurs last year had a better defensive ratings than the Pistons D from '88-90, the Knicks D in 92-93, 94-95, 95-96.
2. The Celtics last year and Pistons in '03-'04 had a better defensive rating than any team Jordan has ever faced.
3. The teams Jordan has faced in the finals (6) have had a defense rating of 104.6, the teams Kobe has faced in the finals (5) have had a rating of 99.2 and the Spurs had a rating of 99.9 when Lebron faced them. These are just staggering numbers.

I am a Jordan fan myself and consider it unquestionable as to who the GOAT is, but the "defense was stifling back then" myth needs to end.

All the wise men of the land do not rely on statistics alone and would also factor in the poor offensive execution and slower paced game in the modern day National Basketball Association.

[juju151111]

It is easy to hand pick youtube videos, use anecdotes and say MJ or Kobe or Lebron have faced the tougher defenses (something that only trolls like KB42PAH and loki resort to).

Lately I've been finding the Jordan diehards are getting a little too carried away with their own revisionist histories. So lets look at the one of the most accurate stats when it comes to team defense and how it has varied from Jordan's era to this one; the defensive rating, which is points allowed by a team per 100 possessions. Three points to consider:

1. The Spurs last year had a better defensive ratings than the Pistons D from '88-90, the Knicks D in 92-93, 94-95, 95-96.
2. The Celtics last year and Pistons in '03-'04 had a better defensive rating than any team Jordan has ever faced.
3. The teams Jordan has faced in the finals (6) have had a defense rating of 104.6, the teams Kobe has faced in the finals (5) have had a rating of 99.2 and the Spurs had a rating of 99.9 when Lebron faced them. These are just staggering numbers.

I am a Jordan fan myself and consider it unquestionable as to who the GOAT is, but the "defense was stifling back then" myth needs to end.

lol teams back then scored more and were more uptempo. In the late 90s teams ppg went down, but yet MJ still dominated. If you put the 89-90 pistons or the knick in this era it will translate different averges because most teams run half court sets today and have different rules.

[Fatal9]

All the wise men of the land do not rely on statistics alone and would also factor in the poor offensive execution and slower paced game in the modern day National Basketball Association.

Pace is adjusted for as it is per 100 possessions.

Anyone who considers perimeter defense in the 80's to be better than today is kidding themselves. I've seen dozens of games where the defensive strategy was "lets just hope they miss open shots outside of 15 feet".

[bruceblitz]

Pace is adjusted for as it is per 100 possessions.

Anyone who considers perimeter defense in the 80's to be better than today is kidding themselves. I've seen dozens of games where the defensive strategy was "lets just hope they miss open shots outside of 15 feet".

You are using a team stat to compare the eras? You aren't taking into account that there were more passes per play, more team play, better offenses run instead of one on one, players weren't "entitled" to 20+ shots like today because they think they are superstars, fg% was higher, all because teams would work together as a group to get better looks, they ran the floor better and more often, why don't you compare perimeter scorers of yester-year to now. That's the big change. Now perimeter players are allowed to get to the basket with much more ease. Give up! You lose!

[oh the horror]

Come onnnnnnnnnn now.


You can find stats, and or whatever so support any opinion at ANY time it would seem, but the fact remains, the defense was in fact TOUGHER back then.

[MaxFly]

I have to ask this...

The argument has been made repeatedly that our current era lacks the defensive intensity and solidness of previous eras, especially the 90s, because of the elimination of the handcheck... Many believe that the ability to handcheck made defenses tougher.

Jordan was always known as a great defensive player, however, with the elimination of handchecking, wouldn't Jordan be a worse defender now than he was in the 80s and 90s if this correlation between handchecking and defense was agreed upon. Did handchecking in the 80s and 90s make Jordan look like a better defender than he would look in today's league?

[Fatal9]

players weren't "entitled" to 20+ shots like today because they think they are superstars, fg% was higher, all because teams would work together as a group to get better looks

Top five scorers FGA per game today: 20.4

In 2008: 19.2
In 2007: 21.2
In 2006: 22.9
In 2005: 20.9

In 1989: 20.7
In 1990: 21.1
In 1991: 20.8
In 1992: 19.8
In 1993: 20.7

The paces of the teams of all the top scorers are comparable as well. The star players will always get their shots, it's always been like that.

Another myth busted

[bruceblitz]

I have to ask this...

The argument has been made repeatedly that our current era lacks the defensive intensity and solidness of previous eras, especially the 90s, because of the elimination of the handcheck... Many believe that the ability to handcheck made defenses tougher.

Jordan was always known as a great defensive player, however, with the elimination of handchecking, wouldn't Jordan be a worse defender now than he was in the 80s and 90s if this correlation between handchecking and defense was agreed upon. Did handchecking in the 80s and 90s make Jordan look like a better defender than he would look in today's league?

This I can agree with to a certain extent, the thing that would still make Jordan an elite defender today was his athleticism, lateral movement, quick reaction time, and footwork. That being said there would be a drop-off on the defensive "stats" and abilities or he would foul out a lot. As far as offense though, for instance the year Jordan averaged 37+ppg he would average over 40 and near 45 points per game in today's game.

[oh the horror]

This I can agree with to a certain extent, the thing that would still make Jordan an elite defender today was his athleticism, lateral movement, quick reaction time, and footwork. That being said there would be a drop-off on the defensive "stats" and abilities or he would foul out a lot. As far as offense though, for instance the year Jordan averaged 37+ppg he would average over 40 and near 45 points per game in today's game.

That was a good question, and I have to agree with this answer fully.

[MaxFly]

This I can agree with to a certain extent, the thing that would still make Jordan an elite defender today was his athleticism, lateral movement, quick reaction time, and footwork. That being said there would be a drop-off on the defensive "stats" and abilities or he would foul out a lot. As far as offense though, for instance the year Jordan averaged 37+ppg he would average over 40 and near 45 points per game in today's game.

Ah... I see... So Jordan wouldn't really be as great as he appeared to be in the 80s and 90s; the hand check ruled boosted his ability. Without the handcheck rule, he'd still be a great defender, but not really as great as he was back in the 80s and 90s?

[bruceblitz]

Top five scorers FGA per game today: 20.4

In 2008: 19.2
In 2007: 21.2
In 2006: 22.9
In 2005: 20.9

In 1989: 20.7
In 1990: 21.1
In 1991: 20.8
In 1992: 19.8
In 1993: 20.7

The paces of the teams of all the top scorers are comparable as well. The star players will always get their shots, it's always been like that.

Another myth busted

No, you don't get it, you have more perimeter players taking that many shots per game (aka sf's, sg's, pg's.) Also, Kobe led the league in shots attempted 4 years in his career, he only has 2 scoring titles, in contrast Iverson led the league in shots attempted for 4 years of his career and won 4 scoring titles. Kobe is a shot jacking volume scorer. Period.