Cavs fans, when is your team going to start winning?

[coin24]

the cavs would be a 50 win team with J-Val, harrison barnes, and victor oladipo. So far they have one big-time swing and a miss with Bennett, but I wonder what he would look like if he played 30 minutes a game and was able to play through some of his issues rather than play 7 mins a game with 2/3 FGA. If the cavs continue to lose we might see that happen.


But in all seriousness, i have no f*cking clue. So many close losses. It's frustrating. I think the biggest problem for the cavs is that they rely on a guard centric offense and the main ball handlers of the team, Kyrie, Dion, and Jack, are all not so great decision makers.


At least they didn't bend over for the Lakers and give them a draft pick to do them the favor of getting them out of the repeater tax.

They should be trading for some established players then.. Potato head has no clue how to develop younger players/rookies and thats all there best players

Bennett should be playing 30 mins a game, give him a chance FFS.. What are they waiting for? Theyre not winning shit this season and theyve been full strength, time to make some moves.


I watched a lot of there games to see Bynum in action, running there offense through him looked great. Unfortunately thats done. Its hard not to hate on the Cavs, stupid ownership and there bad decisions. Nothing against there fans..

[DukeDelonte13]

They should be trading for some established players then.. Potato head has no clue how to develop younger players/rookies and thats all there best players

Bennett should be playing 30 mins a game, give him a chance FFS.. What are they waiting for? Theyre not winning shit this season and theyve been full strength, time to make some moves.


I watched a lot of there games to see Bynum in action, running there offense through him looked great. Unfortunately thats done. Its hard not to hate on the Cavs, stupid ownership and there bad decisions. Nothing against there fans..

why should Bennett be playing over Thompson? Thompson is better in every conceivable way right now and is only 22. Its easy to say play Bennett for 30 mins a game but its not so easy. I guess the solution would be play AB at the 3 and that very well could happen but i don't know.

let me debunk the "Mike Brown can't develop rookies" myth. He's never been in a position to develop rookies before. This is the first time. He coached veteran teams in Cle and LA. This is his first run at coaching a young team. Dion Waiters and TT are turning into very solid players under Brown. Kyrie is finally giving effort on the defensive end. Zeller looks better than he ever did when he was with Scott. Give the guy a break.

The hate on the cavs ownership is stupid. Only reason Bynum was offered a deal and Kyrie Irving happened was because Cavs ownership was willing to take risks and spend money to do so. If you don't like the draft picks thats on Chris Grant, not Gilbert.

This wasn't the organization that traded away a bunch of prospects for Andrew Bynum or traded assets for Bargs.

[intrinsic]

It makes a lot more sense to put Bennet on the court for 25 or 30 minutes now than it ever did before.

They were coming into the season with an incredibly young roster, healthy Andy V and a promising experiment with Bynum. The goal was to win games. Now that Bynum failed in Cleveland, it makes more sense to look towards next year, and the year after. Play the young guys and see what you have.

With that said, Brown MUST be more patient and tolerant of mistakes as the head coach. It's already January, and the Cavs are 11 games under .500. He needs to be realistic and not so short-sghted.

[GOBB]

the cavs would be a 50 win team with J-Val, harrison barnes, and victor oladipo. So far they have one big-time swing and a miss with Bennett, but I wonder what he would look like if he played 30 minutes a game and was able to play through some of his issues rather than play 7 mins a game with 2/3 FGA. If the cavs continue to lose we might see that happen.


But in all seriousness, i have no f*cking clue. So many close losses. It's frustrating. I think the biggest problem for the cavs is that they rely on a guard centric offense and the main ball handlers of the team, Kyrie, Dion, and Jack, are all not so great decision makers.


At least they didn't bend over for the Lakers and give them a draft pick to do them the favor of getting them out of the repeater tax.

I really thought the Cavs would be challenging for playoff seeds 6-8. Given how lousy the east is they aren't far behind the 8 seed. But just ignoring that I felt they would have played much better this season. I dont know how u feel about Brown but I don't think he is a bad coach. But maybe he isn't as good as I thought given he had Lebron. On paper your team looks decent.

Bennett would fare better in a situation like the Sixers. Brown is trying to win but do you jeopardize that trying to give him consistent minutes daily? I dunno

[red1]

Tanking is for chumps. Where Im from we are all about dat championship

sincerely,

raps fan

[sixer6ad]

When you draft garbage you don't win.

Cavs know this far too well.

Cavs fans will come in here talking about how good TT and Waiters are though and that they just need a couple more top 5 picks before they get good.

Huge, lifetime fan who watches every game.

When you look at TT and Dion vs their own draft classes, and plug them in to what positions the Cavs were trying to fill, both players have performed. TT has an a solid amount of double doubles - 14 - which has him ahead of last year's pace (31). IF Cavs were drafting for PF, who behind him should they have selected? Biyombo? Vesely? Morris twins? Faried?

Dion is the TOP scoring player off the bench in the East. That's right...the top. In addition, he is the highest scoring shooting guard in year 1 in the last four drafts.

That being said, two things are important to discuss with this team:

- both players are VERY NICE complementary players. Dion is a Vinnie Johnson type player on a bad team. Was Vinnie good? He'll yeah. He lit it up for championship teams. Dion is scoring for a bad team. Tristan is just a prototypical power forward whose work ethic and attitude are stronger than his athletic talent. Neither player is a lights out Top 5 pick, but both compare very well to players drafted in their classes

- this combo is NOT working. Maybe the cavs should have gone with best player rather than position? Would that have helped chemistry and provided different options at this point? That is the big question for people to consider. It's hard to say that picks and pick ups like Jarrett jack and earl Clark were awful, but it's not working.

Anthony Bennett - I know I know - has done some things in the last week which, for the first time, show growth. The jury is still out.

This team is just not winning, but I do believe they have a run in them. Our one goal this year was to make the playoffs, and we have not been eliminated as of today.

[RedBlackAttack]

Huge, lifetime fan who watches every game.

When you look at TT and Dion vs their own draft classes, and plug them in to what positions the Cavs were trying to fill, both players have performed. TT has an a solid amount of double doubles - 14 - which has him ahead of last year's pace (31). IF Cavs were drafting for PF, who behind him should they have selected? Biyombo? Vesely? Morris twins? Faried?

Dion is the TOP scoring player off the bench in the East. That's right...the top. In addition, he is the highest scoring shooting guard in year 1 in the last four drafts.

That being said, two things are important to discuss with this team:

- both players are VERY NICE complementary players. Dion is a Vinnie Johnson type player on a bad team. Was Vinnie good? He'll yeah. He lit it up for championship teams. Dion is scoring for a bad team. Tristan is just a prototypical power forward whose work ethic and attitude are stronger than his athletic talent. Neither player is a lights out Top 5 pick, but both compare very well to players drafted in their classes

- this combo is NOT working. Maybe the cavs should have gone with best player rather than position? Would that have helped chemistry and provided different options at this point? That is the big question for people to consider. It's hard to say that picks and pick ups like Jarrett jack and earl Clark were awful, but it's not working.

Anthony Bennett - I know I know - has done some things in the last week which, for the first time, show growth. The jury is still out.

This team is just not winning, but I do believe they have a run in them. Our one goal this year was to make the playoffs, and we have not been eliminated as of today.

You're using far too much reason for this crowd.

Here's the fact... the Cavs did not draft poorly in 2011 or 2012. We'll see about Bennett/Karasev.

But, considering the other guys in the respective drafts, Thompson and Waiters were perfectly fine picks. The problem is that the Cavs happened to come along and get a bunch of high picks in two drafts without that elite, top notch talent at the top of the draft... easy picks, which are actually pretty frequent in NBA history.

You look at Thompson and Waiters overall as No. 4 picks as compared to drafts of the past and, yeah... maybe you're underwhelmed. But, you look at them as compared to their respective draft classes. And, when you do that, both guys stack up favorably to most of the other options realistically being discussed at the time.

Both guys have had solid starts to their NBA careers.


You'd like to hit the ball out of the park on every pick, but that's just not realistic. The biggest thing you don't want to do when you have a high pick is to completely whiff, like a Thomas Robinson or Jan Vesely.

Considering the talent in those drafts, we did pretty well. Problem is, doing "pretty well" in weak drafts doesn't equate to immediate wins.

That doesn't mean that Thompson and Waiters aren't good players... I feel like they're both good building blocks. They're just not the guys who are going to take you from terrible to a solid playoff contender in two years.

We have one elite talent on this team right now. That's Kyrie. Waiters shows flashes, but he is more of a "solid" piece right now. Same thing with Thompson.

If that isn't good enough for a playoff run, so be it. Because, the 2014 draft may have more talent than the last three combined. A lot of this is the luck of the draw and when your team happens to stink. If the Spurs hadn't been bad the years Robinson and Duncan came out, who knows what the NBA landscape would have looked like.

[chips93]

When you draft garbage you don't win.

Cavs know this far too well.

Cavs fans will come in here talking about how good TT and Waiters are though and that they just need a couple more top 5 picks before they get good.

the wolves drafted jonny flynn, derrick williams, wesley johnson, and corey brewer all in the top 7.

thats an absolute trainwreck, but they have managed to pull it together and are now a contender for a playoff spot in a historically deep conference, while having plenty of upside.

why not give the cavs the same opportunity to pull it together?

[knickballer]

the wolves drafted jonny flynn, derrick williams, wesley johnson, and corey brewer all in the top 7.

thats an absolute trainwreck, but they have managed to pull it together and are now a contender for a playoff spot in a historically deep conference, while having plenty of upside.

why not give the cavs the same opportunity to pull it together?

This is the 4th year Lebron has left the team and they are currently just as bad.. They landed a star in Irving but everyone else hasn't really panned out. Yes, I know TT has been developing steadily(Cavs fan been saying this for years now) but he's not fooling anyone. His stat line is very average for a shitty team and lack of scorers, usually stat lines are inflated. Dion Waiters looks like a headcase but talented.

They can still easily turn it around as they have cap space and probably another high draft pick but damn..

And yea the Wolves did **** up a few draft picks and that's what hindered them from turning from a average team until a potential powerhouse..

PS, lol @ fools who thought Cavs were a playoff team this year because they signed Earl Clark

[BlackVVaves]

You're using far too much reason for this crowd.

Here's the fact... the Cavs did not draft poorly in 2011 or 2012. We'll see about Bennett/Karasev.

But, considering the other guys in the respective drafts, Thompson and Waiters were perfectly fine picks. The problem is that the Cavs happened to come along and get a bunch of high picks in two drafts without that elite, top notch talent at the top of the draft... easy picks, which are actually pretty frequent in NBA history.

You look at Thompson and Waiters overall as No. 4 picks as compared to drafts of the past and, yeah... maybe you're underwhelmed. But, you look at them as compared to their respective draft classes. And, when you do that, both guys stack up favorably to most of the other options realistically being discussed at the time.

Both guys have had solid starts to their NBA careers.


You'd like to hit the ball out of the park on every pick, but that's just not realistic. The biggest thing you don't want to do when you have a high pick is to completely whiff, like a Thomas Robinson or Jan Vesely.

Considering the talent in those drafts, we did pretty well. Problem is, doing "pretty well" in weak drafts doesn't equate to immediate wins.

That doesn't mean that Thompson and Waiters aren't good players... I feel like they're both good building blocks. They're just not the guys who are going to take you from terrible to a solid playoff contender in two years.

We have one elite talent on this team right now. That's Kyrie. Waiters shows flashes, but he is more of a "solid" piece right now. Same thing with Thompson.

If that isn't good enough for a playoff run, so be it. Because, the 2014 draft may have more talent than the last three combined. A lot of this is the luck of the draw and when your team happens to stink. If the Spurs hadn't been bad the years Robinson and Duncan came out, who knows what the NBA landscape would have looked like.

I agree, but do you really see the Cavs sucking enough to have a top 8 draft pick? Because as deep as the draft is, if what the Cavs really need, like you say, is a transcendent player to pair with Kyrie, they better be picking in the first several slots as to lessen the chances of simply picking up another "building piece."

But, I don't see the Cavs losing to that extent. I still think they will grab the 7th or 8th seed as the year progresses. I think Irving will stop playing so inconsistently as he was for the first portion of the year and lead the Cavs.

[niko]

They overvalue their players. Everyone is a piece that they can't move except for huge value. Which is great, unless they all play together like shit, which they do. The only way for them to get great players is draft or trade, but they are afraid to make trades so essentially they need draft home runs over and over. Which is really really hard.

You always get chapter and verse of all the assets the Cavs have which is great unless you sit on them forever.

[RedBlackAttack]

They overvalue their players. Everyone is a piece that they can't move except for huge value. Which is great, unless they all play together like shit, which they do. The only way for them to get great players is draft or trade, but they are afraid to make trades so essentially they need draft home runs over and over. Which is really really hard.

You always get chapter and verse of all the assets the Cavs have which is great unless you sit on them forever.

Which rumored trade involving these young guys do you think the Cavs should have done which they didn't? Surely you aren't referring to the Gasol deal, which should be a salary dump for the Lakers, not one in which they get back assets.

So, what are the moves that would have changed things, but we were afraid of? I honestly can't think of one rumored or otherwise that would significantly change the current situation for the better. Obviously you have insider knowledge the rest of us aren't privy to.

Be specific. Don't just speak in generalities. I'm not opposed to making a move, but not a panic move that makes no sense for the longterm outlook of the franchise.

[RedBlackAttack]

I agree, but do you really see the Cavs sucking enough to have a top 8 draft pick? Because as deep as the draft is, if what the Cavs really need, like you say, is a transcendent player to pair with Kyrie, they better be picking in the first several slots as to lessen the chances of simply picking up another "building piece."

But, I don't see the Cavs losing to that extent. I still think they will grab the 7th or 8th seed as the year progresses. I think Irving will stop playing so inconsistently as he was for the first portion of the year and lead the Cavs.

The way this team has played the first third of the season and now with this whole Bynum mess, this is a high lottery team. If they made a move for a starting caliber SF, things could change quickly. But, the question is whether you do that at this point and try to sneak into the playoffs or try to land one of those top 5-6 players in this stacked draft.

It seems like that's the current discussion underway in Cleveland.

[nevetslc88]

Is anyone surprised that Gilbert pulled a bait-and-switch on the Cavs fans? He promised playoffs, has a golden opportunity with half the East losing their best players to injury with the other half tanking, and he's just going to cut Bynum to save money (signing was about the salary floor from the beginning). Forget about whether he wants to do the Pau deal. Why cut Bynum at all? There was no event that lead to this and Bynum hasn't said a word throughout. He's performed so poorly, every contender in the league is waiting for him to clear waivers to make him an offer. Now LA arrives willing to gift them a difference maker that virtually guarantees a playoff birth for Bynum's cap friendly deal and either a disgruntled 6th man or middling 1st round pick and Gilbert grandstands on not-getting-duped. What LA is asking for matches the Gortat comp favorably. LA isn't looking for kill. Gilbert is looking for an out. He's just hustling his own fans.

sucks for Cavs fans having to root for a team with a loser owner like that.

[Byobob]

The Cavs isn't winning that much anyway. I don't understand why Brown and some Cavs fans wouldn't give Bennett at least 20 mpg to develop.