Deconstructing a myth: Vince Carter having

[JohnMax]

https://asubstituteforwar.wordpress....dan-potential/

What I have never understood is the narrative that Vince Carter could have been Michael Jordan and just didn’t care enough to . This is false for a number of reasons.

The first thing that should be noted is that as athletic as Vince Carter was, Michael Jordan he was not. Young Carter had Jordan’s vertical talent, but Jordan’s first step and explosiveness was at another level than his, or anyone else’s size in NBA history. Explosiveness on the ground is more important than explosiveness vertically – If you can break through into the paint, this forces the defense inward and opens a myriad of possibilities for your team offensively. Vertical explosiveness simply helps you finish at the rim more, which is valuable but not as much as penetrations. Furthermore, most high end athletes who are less vertically talented than Carter, are strong enough finishers in their own right. Thus the marginal benefit of Carter’s all time vertical ability from that point is comparatively small. But the marginal benefit between a high end penetrator and one of the best penetrators of all time is much higher. It’s why Dwyane Wade is a better offensive player than Vince Carter has ever been, despite lacking Vince’s vertical lift and strength. Wade slicing up the defense like this takes him to another level breaking opposing defensive sets.

[SouBeachTalents]

OP has TMZ potential

[Dragonyeuw]

Vince came at a time when the league was in a post MJ transition( before he joined the Wizards). And the two players circa 2000 who most resembled MJ aesthetically in terms of size, physical attributes and in terms of flair were Kobe and Vince. As you said, Vince had the vertical but he didn't have the kind of lateral quickness that would enable him to be a great man defender like MJ or Kobe, nor did he have the maniacal will and competitive desire that drove those guys. We tend to measure athleticism in terms of leaping ability, but MJ had catlike reactionary instincts and ability to switch gears which is what made him such a great slasher, plus MJ had great explosion off one or two feet. Young Wade didn't get the same kind of air as Vince but had similar to MJ reactionary quickness and change of pace for knifing through the defense, probably even a little quicker.

Whats most impressive to me is that he's still in the league at 38, light years past his prime, years ago he seemed like he would be nothing but a high wire act whose time would come screeching to a halt once he got into his 30s. To his credit he adapted to role player status gracefully and thats why he's still in the league.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Alot of nikkas was branded as the next MJ, Jordan like talent. He did have MJs athleticism tho arguably greater

TMac and Bran are really the only wings since MJ that had the natural pure talent. Kobe was the closest due to his technique, skills, fundamentals, work ethic and IQ

[Velocirap31]

Vince had the potential to be greater than Kobe and arguably was in his prime, but Kobe had the work ethic and became a better player for much longer.

[Fallen Angel]

Vince had the potential to be greater than Kobe and arguably was in his prime, but Kobe had the work ethic and became a better player for much longer.

no.

just no.

[Dragonyeuw]

Vince had the potential to be greater than Kobe and arguably was in his prime

Back in 2000, we were all swept up by Vinsanity. I dont see how anyone in retrospect can say with a straight face that Vince in his prime was arguably better, considering his prime basically coincided with Kobe's. That argument should have completely died at the very latest by 2001, even though Vince had a great year that season.

[Jacks3]

Vince had the potential to be greater than Kobe and arguably was in his prime, but Kobe had the work ethic and became a better player for much longer.

lol

Prime Carter has absolutely no argument over prime Bryant.

[Kobe_6/8]

Vince had the potential to be greater than Kobe and arguably was in his prime, but Kobe had the work ethic and became a better player for much longer.

[ClipperRevival]

https://asubstituteforwar.wordpress....dan-potential/

What I have never understood is the narrative that Vince Carter could have been Michael Jordan and just didn’t care enough to . This is false for a number of reasons.

The first thing that should be noted is that as athletic as Vince Carter was, Michael Jordan he was not. Young Carter had Jordan’s vertical talent, but Jordan’s first step and explosiveness was at another level than his, or anyone else’s size in NBA history. Explosiveness on the ground is more important than explosiveness vertically – If you can break through into the paint, this forces the defense inward and opens a myriad of possibilities for your team offensively. Vertical explosiveness simply helps you finish at the rim more, which is valuable but not as much as penetrations. Furthermore, most high end athletes who are less vertically talented than Carter, are strong enough finishers in their own right. Thus the marginal benefit of Carter’s all time vertical ability from that point is comparatively small. But the marginal benefit between a high end penetrator and one of the best penetrators of all time is much higher. It’s why Dwyane Wade is a better offensive player than Vince Carter has ever been, despite lacking Vince’s vertical lift and strength. Wade slicing up the defense like this takes him to another level breaking opposing defensive sets.

Agreed.

MJ's quickness and first step was off the charts and that is one of the main reasons that made him so unguardable. No single defender had a chance out in the perimeter against MJ. He was just way too quick and explosive.

And also true with Wade. Wade didn't have Vince's vertical but he also had an amazing first step and had great quickness. He also had a far superior ability to get to the rack with a variety of moves (hesitations, change of pace, Euro step, etc).

Vince was an athletic freak when it came to verticality, but he lacked the quickness and explosive first step of MJ or Wade. He also didn't have their iso games. I mean he was very good but not on MJ or Wade level.

[ClipperRevival]

Vince came at a time when the league was in a post MJ transition( before he joined the Wizards). And the two players circa 2000 who most resembled MJ aesthetically in terms of size, physical attributes and in terms of flair were Kobe and Vince. As you said, Vince had the vertical but he didn't have the kind of lateral quickness that would enable him to be a great man defender like MJ or Kobe, nor did he have the maniacal will and competitive desire that drove those guys. We tend to measure athleticism in terms of leaping ability, but MJ had catlike reactionary instincts and ability to switch gears which is what made him such a great slasher, plus MJ had great explosion off one or two feet. Young Wade didn't get the same kind of air as Vince but had similar to MJ reactionary quickness and change of pace for knifing through the defense, probably even a little quicker.

Whats most impressive to me is that he's still in the league at 38, light years past his prime, years ago he seemed like he would be nothing but a high wire act whose time would come screeching to a halt once he got into his 30s. To his credit he adapted to role player status gracefully and thats why he's still in the league.

[VeeCee15]

Carter could jump higher than MJ
and he had a more explosive first step..hence he was branded as just a dunker in his first year in the league.

Carter had no handles he just first step blew by defenders and dunked it. Kobe could not do that on a consistent basis cause he wasn't Carter level athletic.

No handles and scoring 20 PPG. First step explosive blow by.

Look Kobe came into the league 1997 and Carter game 1999..he was more hyped than kobe in 1999 and in 2000 and 2001 EVEN though he played for a CANADIAN team no one in the USA cared about. Why is that? More athletic, more entertaining and MORE EXPLOSIVE than kobe. And he was on another level athletically than even JORDAN. Thats why there was HYPE. Kobe wasn't really athletic enough to carry the MJ torch and people weren't interested...Carter enters the scene and BAM

[tontoz]

OP ignoring the fact Carter was a far better perimeter shooter than Jordan with a high, unblockable release. For his career he shot 37.4% from 3 on 4 attempts per game.

If he had Jordan's desire he absolutely could have been a GOAT candidate.

[dubeta]

For what its worth I still rank Vince ahead of Kobe all-time

[dreamwarrior]

VC and Tmac were athletic freaks, but they lacked so much mentally. Kobe was a more athletic version of Grant Hill.