Were Jordan's point totals inflated ??

[eliteballer]

When CLEARLY inferior players like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Arenas, Iverson etc. are posting seasons of like 35/6/4, 32/7/7, 33/8, 29+/6, it's safe to say that either 35+/6/5 (if he needed to score more) or 33/6+/6 on better efficiency (if he didn't need to score as much) would be a lock for 24-29 year old Jordan. Get real, kid.

Arenas is clearly inferior to all those guys and his prime numbers weren't THAT much worse than them, and ALL those guys have advantages over Jordan in aspects of scoring. Its not cut and dry like you're trying to make it.

Dantley put up similar scoring numbers to Jordan, and he was clearly inferior to all these guys except Arenas.

Jordan putting up similar numbers to an era where the Bad Boys allowed more PPG than Dirk/Nash Mavs

[bwink23]

Arenas is clearly inferior to all those guys and his prime numbers weren't THAT much worse than them, and ALL those guys have advantages over Jordan in aspects of scoring. Its not cut and dry like you're trying to make it.

Dantley put up similar scoring numbers to Jordan, and he was clearly inferior to all these guys except Arenas.

Jordan putting up similar numbers to an era where the Bad Boys allowed more PPG than Dirk/Nash Mavs

And the 1991 Chicago Bulls with defensive stalwarts Jordan and Pippen allowed more PPG than old-ass Jordan's Wizards in 2003, LOL!!!!


WOOO WEEEE!!! That is some crazy shit right there Eliteness Baller dude !

[Indian guy]

Guys who are/were significantly worse scorers than him, and way more limited in terms of their scoring game, were at 49-50%.

Only a couple of guys have done that - LeBron and Wade, and they, believe it or not, do have some advantages over MJ. LeBron's a more dominant finisher(or was) and Wade's a better slasher. Given the limited ability of their perimeter games, they are also more willing to drive and play a higher % game. MJ was a lot more jump shot-oriented on the other hand. A higher volume shooter too. All of this would bring his efficiency down.

[mookie gaylock]

Kobe almost NEVER guards the opposing best player, and when he did it was very sporadic.....i can prove it thru youtube vids if you like??

Yes please do that.

I'm about to take off with some friends to go out for the night. I expect to see this vids when I come back early tommorow morning. Don't work yourself too hard, lil buddy, you got all night! Hasta.

[eliteballer]

Kobe almost NEVER guards the opposing best player, and when he did it was very sporadic.....i can prove it thru youtube vids if you like??

He very often does, and you make it sound like Jordan had to guard premier players every night instead of joke wings, on the odd occasion PIPPEN couldnt cover one of the few premier swings.

[bwink23]

Yes please do that.

I'm about to take off with some friends to go out for the night. I expect to see this vids when I come back early tommorow morning. Don't work yourself too hard, lil buddy, you got all night! Hasta.

Later GAYlock.

[bwink23]

He very often does, and you make it sound like Jordan had to guard premier players every night instead of joke wings, on the odd occasion PIPPEN couldnt cover one of the few premier swings.

Actually, he very often DOES NOT....

[Calabis]

Only a couple of guys have done that - LeBron and Wade, and they, believe it or not, do have some advantages over MJ. LeBron's a more dominant finisher(or was) and Wade's a better slasher. Given the limited ability of their perimeter games, they are also more willing to drive and play a higher % game. MJ was a lot more jump shot-oriented on the other hand. A higher volume shooter too. All of this would bring his efficiency down.

I'm not sure if I really read this right

[Indian guy]

I'm not sure if I really read this right

MJ's the GOAT, but he wasn't the best at everything, kid. 06-10 LeBron IS a better finisher than MJ and every other perimeter player in NBA history. 05-11 Wade is the quickest non-PG ever. Nobody's ever been able to get inside with his ease and consistency.

[Calabis]

Those guys suck. Michael Jordan actually never guarded players even close to the level of dwayne wade, carmello anthony or lebron james. Or did he try to guard Nique and Bird, his best players, etc? If he did i'll post some stats of what they did to him

Yes Kobe has guarded the likes of Wade and James, yet he said the most difficult guy he ever had to guard was Reggie Miller...who was past his prime, please don't have me post the video, where he states this at his own camp for kids, plus Bowen guarded them all and we know what he said already

[Calabis]

MJ's the GOAT, but he wasn't the best at everything, kid. 06-10 LeBron IS a better finisher than MJ and every other perimeter player in NBA history. 05-11 Wade is the quickest non-PG ever. Nobody's ever been able to get inside with his ease and consistency.

Lol, I never said he's the best at everything, but how is Lebron a better finisher? U mean dunker at the rim...maybe, because I don't see how he is better than MJ at finishing....Jordan would dunk over you and then do layups Lebron could only dream about....if you said Lebron was a better passer, rebounder, scarier in the open court I would agree. And Wade's first step is not quicker than MJ's sorry that's just a fact....is Wade quicker side to side, yes, but explosion toward the rim...no....you must have never seen prime MJ, because young MJ drove to the basket like a madman

Edit: Sorry u do realize Wade plays in a era, where they have made it easier to get to the rim right?

One of the guys who helped design rule changes

NBA.com: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

SJ: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim. Additionally, teams now realize the 3-point shot is a great competitive equalizer, so they are taking more; they have improved their skill level on threes and are making them at a higher rate.

[I.R.Beast]

they played no defense in the 80s yes they were inflated.

[Psileas]

absolutely DISAGREE.

Kobe, Wade, Lebron all actually lack mid-range game. Kobe is doing better than wade & lebron scoring wise because of his bulk FGA & excellent FT % game NOT because of his mid-range game. If Kobe ever had MJ like mid-range game, his efficiency & FG% will seriously go up. but NO.
Wade is more slash & drive to the basket player. Kobe is more developed. Dunkin is the only one who had solid mid-range game. Iverson sucked at it. wade, lebron both have outside & drive to the basket game unlike kobe.

Kobe has ave inside game around the basket. Wade & lebron are much better around the basket. specially LBJ. Kobe is better at outside game because of the post up game he got. Wade doesnt. LBJ is very ave at it.

Uh, wrong.
Thanks to bball-ref, now we have charts that show FG%'s of every player since 2001, browsed by range.
First of all, I don't remember mentioning LeBron, so I'll leave him out, neither did I mention Iverson (who's "Dunkin", btw?).
Going by the ones I mentioned:

FG%'s

2002 Jordan:
10 to 15 ft: 41.9
16 ft to 3-pt: 40.9

2003 Jordan:

10 to 15 ft: 43.9
16 ft to 3-pt: 42.4

2010 Carmelo:

10 to 15 ft: 44.6
16 ft to 3-pt: 40.2

2011 Carmelo:

10 to 15 ft: 34.7
16 ft to 3-pt: 43.2

2007 Wade:

10 to 15 ft: 42.3
16 ft to 3-pt: 37.8

2008 Wade:

10 to 15 ft: 40.6
16 ft to 3-pt: 36.8

2009 Wade

10 to 15 ft: 44.0
16 ft to 3-pt: 41.9

And now, Kobe:

2001:

10 to 15 ft: 45.9
16 ft to 3-pt: 40.6

2002:

10 to 15 ft: 44.3
16 ft to 3-pt: 38.7

2003:

10 to 15 ft: 37.3
16 ft to 3-pt: 41.1

2 low seasons followed, and then got back:

2006:

10 to 15 ft: 45.5
16 ft to 3-pt: 41.9

2007:

10 to 15 ft: 48.1
16 ft to 3-pt: 42.5

2008:

10 to 15 ft: 45.2
16 ft to 3-pt: 38.4

2009:

10 to 15 ft: 44.9
16 ft to 3-pt: 43.4

2010:

10 to 15 ft: 48.1
16 ft to 3-pt: 43.1

2011:

10 to 15 ft: 51.2 (!)
16 ft to 3-pt: 37.4

This season, he's at 41.5 and 42.4, respectively.
Like I said, Kobe usually kills from mid-range. After all, throughout his career, he would drive to the basket less than the rest of the players I mentioned, except Anthony.

MJ has the best inside game around the basket in the history of NBA. nobody is even close besides Wilt & Kareem & Shaq.

MJ has the best mid-range game in NBA history. Hakeem, kareem, Bird probably comes close.

And despite all this, he's never come close to leading the league in FG% even once. Maybe because you forgot to put his playing position into context. Sorry, but I'll take most high scoring bigs over Jordan when it comes to playing close to the basket, as well as Adrian Dantley. There are also lots and lots of mid-range shooters that you forgot (again, Hakeem and Kareem were great for their positions, but nowhere near the absolute greatest ) and could give Jordan a run for his money when it comes to mid-range game, like West, English, King, Gervin, Greer, McAdoo, Robertson, Sam Jones, prime Magic, Toney, Rick Barry, Havlicek, Kobe (as I've shown before) etc. Not all of them were super high scorers of course, but the ones who weren't took mid-range shots at a higher frequency than Jordan. For example, Greer "only" averaged 20-24 ppg in his prime, but he relied on his mid-range game more than Jordan, who also drove a lot.

Kobe, wade, Lebron should not even be mentioned in same breath as MJ regarding mid-range game. Especially Kobe who shoots 45% FG%. His shot selections is poor thus his efficiency is poor & cannot get inside the paint area at will like MJ did.

Ironically, this is exactly the reason why Kobe "only" shoots 44-46% FG. Because he took lots and lots of mid and long range shots. The reason Kobe shot 44-46% establishes him as one of the all-time great mid-range shooters.

MJ easily 40+ ppg scorer in today's soft NBA league in his peak bulk scoring years. (Deadly inside game + Best mid-range game in NBA history + excellent handles + extra large hand size + incredible stamina + empty paint area & no big men)

too easy

I say MJ ave 40+/7/7 for first 6 yrs of his career. then slow down

Random numbers. What are you going to tell me next, maybe that's he's going to benefit from perimeter friendly rules defensively, as well?

BTW, MJ already had 7-8 pts difference as scoring leader in 1987 when he ave 37.1. Dominique was close 2nd with 29 ppg in 1987 if I am correct

so dont be surprise if 9-10 ppg scoring difference btw MJ & kobe/wade/LBJ with perimeter friendly rules

I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled maybe something like a 5-6 ppg margin over the best of the rest for 1-2 seasons. But 9-10 ppg for practically a whole decade? Please...

[OldSchoolBBall]

Only a couple of guys have done that - LeBron and Wade, and they, believe it or not, do have some advantages over MJ. LeBron's a more dominant finisher(or was) and Wade's a better slasher

Lebron is not a better finisher than Jordan was. Wade might be a slightly better slasher, but only in certain situations (i.e., changing directions). Before the 82games.com pages stopped working, I saw (and posted in a topic on here that I'm trying to find for accurate numbers) that '03 Jordan at 40 years old was finishing something like...

EDIT: Never mind, found it:

Just as an aside, I happened to be looking at MJ's 2003 season stats on 82games.com and noticed that he was finishing 64% of his "inside" shots and 60+% of his "close" shots...at age 40. Compare that to Wade this year, who is finishing on 64% of his "inside" shots and 59+% for "close" shots (of course, Wade's number of attempts inside/close is much higher, so it isn't apples to apples). This, despite 2003 MJ playing in a league where it was harder to get into the lane or get a good look off inside (handchecking allows defenders to angle offensive players into worse shots), and a league where there were more/better shotblockers and a more crowded lane (no 3-second rule leaving the paint wide open as it is many times nowadays), as well as being on bum knees with little lift.

What this tells me is that prime Jordan (age 24-30) must have been a MONSTROUSLY good finisher inside (not that we didn't know, but still). I would LOVE to see his interior completion percentage from '87-'93.

23-30 year old Jordan's conversion % inside must have been astronomical, and under the same conditions players today face it would be even higher (far fewer shotblocking bigs, less crowded lane, harder to angle guys off into bad angles on their drive due to no handchecking, far more likely to get a foul call which won't be reflected in their FGA if they miss - only their makes are counted etc.).

Given the limited ability of their perimeter games, they are also more willing to drive and play a higher % game. MJ was a lot more jump shot-oriented on the other hand. A higher volume shooter too. All of this would bring his efficiency down.

Jordan's better perimeter game would open up his driving game more today, especially due to no handchecking. Honestly, the disallowance of physicality on the perimeter would, I think, change the entire dynamic of Jordan's game, as it has changed it for every other star. Guys would HAVE to commit to one way of playing him more so than they did (back then guys could have a hand on him and maintain contact enough to have a chance of staying in front of him, but still be close enough to contest his jumper. Now they'd either have to play closer to contest the J and get blown by for easy finishes or play further off him and die by his jumper (far better jumper inside 22 feet than Lebron or Wade, and better than Kobe after MJ was age 27).