one of the most honest discussions about Kobe I've ever heard

[shadow]

listened to a bit. They cancel each other out. Good call about Kobe forcing the 40 in G1. He basically screwed up his FG% trying to get 40 since he missed like 4 or 5 shots after he came in.

[indiefan23]

I used to read his articles but he turned out to be a terrible columnist. He admitted that he is a Boston homer...that's reason enough for me to boycott his stuff.

So, he admitted something that was obvious. Take it with a grain of salt and its easy to see he's an equal fan of basketball. He knows the league inside out and like I said just had the most honest discussion about Kobe I've heard in my entire life. Honest means fair and balanced. Its pretty easy to tell when he's being a homer and when he's being objective anyway. I think the reason so many Kobe fans can't stand him is because he tears him apart better then anyone. But then again when Kobe plays well he 'always' gives him credit. You'd know this if you wern't being a hypocrite.

[jmill]

Ya know, Kobe fan or not, you have to admit there is a whole lot to criticize him for. Kobe is controversial and polarizing for a reason. Simmons knows the league better then almost anyone and yea, he's not a fan of Kobe, but you have to respect him. If you listen to him and Berry break down Kobe here I don't think you can really say that even if a little bias, he's not being totally fair.

I flat out have 0 respect for anyone who writes off Bill Simmons. He's a bit of a genius in his own right and an unquestioned pioneer. Has anyone ever really accomplished the things he has or gained the influence he has as a sports columnist?

Yes, I'm very aware that Kobe is polarizing. That doesn't mean he hasn't come off extremely biased and irrational regarding Kobe in the past.

One example: All throughout the playoffs KG was doing that mean mug scowl on the bench, over and over. Had never done it before until these playoffs. Simmons never says a word about it.

Kobe starts doing it and Simmons rips into him immediately.

The guy is simply a big Celtics homer and he's way too biased to take seriously a large % of the time when regarding Kobe.

It was refreshing to see him not attack him nonstop for once though.

[indiefan23]

listened to a bit. They cancel each other out. Good call about Kobe forcing the 40 in G1. He basically screwed up his FG% trying to get 40 since he missed like 4 or 5 shots after he came in.

Yo Shadow, I think it gets better as it goes on honestly. They get into Kobe's childhood and progression before people knew who he was... Berry makes some really great points. Then they talk about Jack Nicholson and some other LA type things.

Oh yea, there's one really poignant part that I never used to agree with that I do now. Spike Lee is no longer on the list of NBA super fans and Jack has replaced him. I was a little shocked when I realized I agreed with that. I always used to think Spike was way over him. Menh now I spose.

[Mor'Fiyah]

So, he admitted something that was obvious. Take it with a grain of salt and its easy to see he's an equal fan of basketball. He knows the league inside out and like I said just had the most honest discussion about Kobe I've heard in my entire life. Honest means fair and balanced. Its pretty easy to tell when he's being a homer and when he's being objective anyway. I think the reason so many Kobe fans can't stand him is because he tears him apart better then anyone. But then again when Kobe plays well he 'always' gives him credit. You'd know this if you wern't being a hypocrite.

I disagree.

[quote="Simmons"]
4. I don't like him personally, which affects the way I think of him professionally.

(I will admit to being slightly guilty here. He hasn't been the greatest teammate this decade, both on and off the court. It's been documented ad nauseam, even in books by people paid to coach him. When he accidentally injured Andrew Bynum's knee recently, I found it interesting that Kobe's reaction was more "Crap, there goes my title!" than "Oh, no, my teammate is hurt

[indiefan23]

Yes, I'm very aware that Kobe is polarizing. That doesn't mean he hasn't come off extremely biased and irrational regarding Kobe in the past.

One example: All throughout the playoffs KG was doing that mean mug scowl on the bench, over and over. Had never done it before until these playoffs. Simmons never says a word about it.

Kobe starts doing it and Simmons rips into him immediately.

The guy is simply a big Celtics homer and he's way too biased to take seriously a large % of the time when regarding Kobe.

It was refreshing to see him not attack him nonstop for once though.

Dude, KG has been making every angry insaneo face known to man since I started watching him in 'Sota. KG is completely insane. Kobe's scowl does look like he practiced it in a mirror and to Simmon's credit he said himself, yea, I'd practice a scowl. I still think he was totally fair to Kobe though and I've never seen him attack the guy non-stop.

He's picked the Lakers over Boston last year stating that the team with the best player will win a series when both teams are good and states that nearly every time he's compared the lakers to just about any other team in the league except the cavs. And in that regard he's stated for this 'entire' season that Lebron's improvement was totally due to him seeing Kobe's work ethic and dedication in the Olympics.

I think the things Simmons kills him for Kobe deserves and he's almost always rational. The part where they break down Kobe's fan base, and talk about you guys in this thread, that's absolutely fair and bang on. Its not really negative either, but kind of a neutral observation.

[indiefan23]

The above is an excerpt from an ESPN article Simmons wrote where he was being serious. Notice his bias in subjectively describing Kobe's reaction to Bynum's knee injury in a selfish-me first manner. He admits to not liking Bryant and then unfairly admonishes Bryant for something his bias makes him see as negative.

I agreed with him. Watch it:

hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBJ6URmhTLU&feature=related

The look on Kobe's face is not "Man, sorry! Are you okay?" Its god damn, I'm pissed. Kobe pulls his head out from the knees he's just destroyed, looks away from Bynum screaming in pain, goes FU@K, gets up and just walks away without even talking to the guy he just hurt on his own team, who's writhing and screaming in pain on the ground.

Heres another angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKwMU0u5SVg&feature=fvw

After staff get down and try to talk to Bynum, Kobe rolls his eyes and with a totally annoyed look on his face pretends to care and squats down. Never says a word, just watches for a couple seconds and gets up again totally pissed.

Then leaves it to the bench scrubs to help him off the court. He clearly does not give a damn about his own teammate and if you think differently you're the one who's totally bias, not Bill Simmons who called it exactly like it was. You don't think that has anything to do with the half-assed effort from Bynum upon his return? I do.

[Mor'Fiyah]

I agreed with him. Watch it:

hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBJ6URmhTLU&feature=related

The look on Kobe's face is not "Man, sorry! Are you okay?" Its god damn, I'm pissed. Kobe pulls his head out from the knees he's just destroyed, looks away from Bynum screaming in pain, goes FU@K, gets up and just walks away without even talking to the guy he just hurt on his own team, who's writhing and screaming in pain on the ground.

Heres another angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKwMU0u5SVg&feature=fvw

After staff get down and try to talk to Bynum, Kobe rolls his eyes and with a totally annoyed look on his face pretends to care and squats down. Never says a word, just watches for a couple seconds and gets up again totally pissed.

Then leaves it to the bench scrubs to help him off the court. He clearly does not give a damn about his own teammate and if you think differently you're the one who's totally bias, not Bill Simmons who called it exactly like it was. You don't think that has anything to do with the half-assed effort from Bynum upon his return? I do.

Wow.

And here is the problem with someone who is biased... they don't even know they are. How can you read someone's expressions and then determine exactly what they are thinking and then pass it off as the truth and judge them based on that truth?! Especially after claiming you don't like the person or their personality?! Since when was journalism about reading minds instead of the facts?

Its weird how you can't see how someone who actually likes Bryant would see the very same video and see someone who is concerned for his teammate and pissed that he was the one who might have messed it up for both of them. Its subjective based on whether you think highly of the guy or not. Its not an objective and absolute truth unless you can read minds.

Absurd.

Simmons is a known Bryant hater. He goes out of his way to attack Kobe and admits to it. He doesn't like Kobe and admits to it. And he does not like Laker fans because they in turn send him hate mail and complaints so much so that he writes entire articles aimed at these fans.

[indiefan23]

Wow.

And here is the problem with someone who is biased... they don't even know they are. How can you read someone's expressions and then determine exactly what they are thinking and then pass it off as the truth and judge them based on that truth?! Especially after claiming you don't like the person or their personality?! Since when was journalism about reading minds instead of the facts?

f
Since when is Bill Simmons a journalist? The dude is a blogger.

I don't know, I see a guy get up coldly and walk away with a pissed off annoyed expression on his face, I tend to think those are the emotions he's feeling. Where do you get concern for his teammate out of that? Did you watch it? He gets up, does not say a word to Bynum, and walks away. Squats down and walks away again.

Its weird how you can't see how someone who actually likes Bryant would see the very same video and see someone who is concerned for his teammate and pissed that he was the one who might have messed it up for both of them. Its subjective based on whether you think highly of the guy or not. Its not an objective and absolute truth unless you can read minds.

Unless you can read minds, please. Based on a lifetime of watching people and attaching those actions to their feelings Kobe did not even show an ounce of remorse or concern until he realized it looked that way, got down to look at someone else trying to help Bynum for a second and got up again. Sure, its possible that Kobe expresses remorse and concern by actually acting cold and uncaring, but its much more likely he just does not give a damn, would you not say?

Simmons is a known Bryant hater. He goes out of his way to attack Kobe and admits to it. He doesn't like Kobe and admits to it. And he does not like Laker fans because they in turn send him hate mail and complaints so much so that he writes entire articles aimed at these fans.

He didn't admit he goes out of his way to attack him. He said he's slightly bias because he's not a fan of his but it does not prevent him from judging the guy fairly. You act like the fact he admits bias is a knock against his partiality. If someone admits and acknowledges his biases it allows them to factor the bias into their opinion and actually give a more rational analysis. Simmons is aware of his homerism to Boston and his dislike of Kobe and brings it up often to check himself. And CONSTANTLY talks about Kobe in terms of best and has said Kobe will be one of the 10 greatest ever if he wins this title. He said it would be 'cemented' and 'obvious'. Thats not hate, at all.

You're a Kobe homer: do you do the same thing? You just said that a video of a guy blowing out his teammates knee, getting up and walking away without even saying a word to him or helping the poor kid off the court looked to you like a concerned leader showing empathy for his teammates well being. I mean, you're a laker/kobe homer, you know this right?

[andgar923]

Not sure if its the most honest, but it was entertaining.

Thanks for the link.

They ran the gamut from Nicholson, Clinton, and Bellushi and it was all entertaining.

Now...... I have a question, that's related to the convo.

What happens to Nicholson's seat?

And do they hang something in the rafters in his honor?

I think the seat should be retired, available only to his family and his name on the rafter.

[jmill]

I agreed with him. Watch it:

hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBJ6URmhTLU&feature=related

The look on Kobe's face is not "Man, sorry! Are you okay?" Its god damn, I'm pissed. Kobe pulls his head out from the knees he's just destroyed, looks away from Bynum screaming in pain, goes FU@K, gets up and just walks away without even talking to the guy he just hurt on his own team, who's writhing and screaming in pain on the ground.

Heres another angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKwMU0u5SVg&feature=fvw

After staff get down and try to talk to Bynum, Kobe rolls his eyes and with a totally annoyed look on his face pretends to care and squats down. Never says a word, just watches for a couple seconds and gets up again totally pissed.

Then leaves it to the bench scrubs to help him off the court. He clearly does not give a damn about his own teammate and if you think differently you're the one who's totally bias, not Bill Simmons who called it exactly like it was. You don't think that has anything to do with the half-assed effort from Bynum upon his return? I do.

I love that this is already turning into a Kobe bashing thread. So great.

[jmill]

Dude, KG has been making every angry insaneo face known to man since I started watching him in 'Sota. KG is completely insane. Kobe's scowl does look like he practiced it in a mirror and to Simmon's credit he said himself, yea, I'd practice a scowl. I still think he was totally fair to Kobe though and I've never seen him attack the guy non-stop.

He's picked the Lakers over Boston last year stating that the team with the best player will win a series when both teams are good and states that nearly every time he's compared the lakers to just about any other team in the league except the cavs. And in that regard he's stated for this 'entire' season that Lebron's improvement was totally due to him seeing Kobe's work ethic and dedication in the Olympics.

I think the things Simmons kills him for Kobe deserves and he's almost always rational. The part where they break down Kobe's fan base, and talk about you guys in this thread, that's absolutely fair and bang on. Its not really negative either, but kind of a neutral observation.

lol

I don't really take your opinion seriously, just judging by the general tone of your posts regarding Kobe. No offense.

Yes though, Kobe has his faults. I'm a pretty objective person and have no problem admitting he's done some dumb things in the past. He's an athlete who works very hard and happens to be very good at basketball. As a result I enjoy watching him play basketball.

I don't try to make assumptions about him as a person from the limited information I have available. Good or bad. If you want to praise him, cool. If you want to break him down and criticize, cool. Doesn't interest me.

[andgar923]

They made a mistake tho.

Jack Nicholson used to fly to Bulls games and sit front seat and cheer the Bulls.

He was happy for the Bulls when they won in L.A. and was seen congratulating Phil and Mike.

The best basketball fan is Jim Goldstein:



He attends and watches more games than anybody else in the history of sports.

[indiefan23]

Not sure if its the most honest, but it was entertaining.

Thanks for the link.

They ran the gamut from Nicholson, Clinton, and Bellushi and it was all entertaining.

Now...... I have a question, that's related to the convo.

What happens to Nicholson's seat?

And do they hang something in the rafters in his honor?

I think the seat should be retired, available only to his family and his name on the rafter.

I dunno, I think two guys from the two most diametric fan bases in the league had a conversation about it and found lots of common ground and each ceeded a lot of the other's stronger points. Honest or not, you will NOT see that every day on ISH. ;0

Jack's seat, yea, maybe just hang it right in the rafters with a pair of his sunglasses sitting on the seat. How cool would that be? I also really, really like the idea of playing Jack at the end of every celeb sightings sequence forever. That would be an honor. Anyway, glad you liked it. Was that the first podcast you listened to of his? If so there's a whole archive full of them. Some of them are about as good as sports discussion gets.

[andgar923]

I dunno, I think two guys from the two most diametric fan bases in the league had a conversation about it and found lots of common ground and each ceeded a lot of the other's stronger points. Honest or not, you will NOT see that every day on ISH. ;0

Jack's seat, yea, maybe just hang it right in the rafters with a pair of his sunglasses sitting on the seat. How cool would that be? I also really, really like the idea of playing Jack at the end of every celeb sightings sequence forever. That would be an honor. Anyway, glad you liked it. Was that the first podcast you listened to of his? If so there's a whole archive full of them. Some of them are about as good as sports discussion gets.

Well... it was probably the most honest convo I've heard.

But I usually have this with my boys.

Nevertheless...... it was entertaining and yes it was my first time, thanks for the link.

I can't listen to this for so long, I gotta listen to music.