Lebron's career so far

[Roundball_Rock]

fixed.. can't leave out that his career coincided with the weakest eastern conference of all time... kiiinda helped his career tad.

That does not hold up under historical scrutiny. It is a valid point for 2014, a year in which LeBron's team did not win the championship anyway, but the East was pretty solid at the top in the years prior. Moreover, it is not as if he cruised to the Finals every year in Miami. In 2011 the Heat did cruise--although they had to beat a 62 win team in the ECF without HCA. In 2012 the Heat faced a tough 6 games ECSF in which they trailed halfway through the series and a 7 game ECF, which again had them down 3-2 and also down late in the fourth quarter of Game 7. In 2013 the Heat had a 7 game ECF and also a 7 game Finals.

LeBron detractors can't simply invoke the weakness of the East without looking at the performance of LeBron's teams. Even if you accept the former notion, you are left to conclude LeBron's team relative to its competition was not as great as that of other all-time greats. The 90's Bulls and 80's Lakers routinely cruised to the Finals, as two prime examples--yet no one holds that against MJ or Magic. The Heat were the #1 seed in the East only once during LeBron's time there--and they promptly dissolved to a 0.400 team without him after he left.

heck if he'd have played in the west, he definitely wouldn't have made the Finals in 2007, 2011 and 2014... that's 100% stone cold lead pipe lock.

That depends. In this scenario which Western team does he go on? It is a valid point that the West has for years been deeper than the East--but that, in this alternate scenario, would mean LeBron would most likely have a stronger "supporting cast" if assigned randomly to a Western team than what he had in Cleveland.

4x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 2x NBA Champion, 3x NBA All Star game MVP, 1x NBA Scoring Champion, and 3x NBA playoffs scoring champion.

Yup. He is on pace for a top 5 all-time career with the potential to have a valid case beyond that. He is on pace to be in the KAJ, MJ, Wilt and Russell tier and not the Bird/Magic/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe/Hakeem tier. If he retired tomorrow he would still be top 10 all-time.

[Shep]

You are a fvcking dumbass and you wonder why after 40 years at McDonald's you haven't made manager yet? Think you dumbass

Um you live in your parents basement and I regularly have sex with your mother

[20Four]

Um you live in your parents basement and I regularly have sex with your mother

Mom jokes? How old are you 12? Don't be mad I did something with my life got a Bachelors in Nursing....what about you? You got a Masters in Flipping burgers?

BTW: You'll die a virgin

[J Shuttlesworth]

That does not hold up under historical scrutiny. It is a valid point for 2014, a year in which LeBron's team did not win the championship anyway, but the East was pretty solid at the top in the years prior. Moreover, it is not as if he cruised to the Finals every year in Miami. In 2011 the Heat did cruise--although they had to beat a 62 win team in the ECF without HCA. In 2012 the Heat faced a tough 6 games ECSF in which they trailed halfway through the series and a 7 game ECF, which again had them down 3-2 and also down late in the fourth quarter of Game 7. In 2013 the Heat had a 7 game ECF and also a 7 game Finals.
.

Good post, Roundball. I saw a post showing LeBron's record against the West in recent years:

14- 20-10
13- 25-5
12- 13-7
11- 20-10
10- 23-7
09- 26-4

127-43 (.747)
Theoretically, if he played an 82 game against season against only the West, it would be 61 wings on average. Pretty insane that the 09 and 10 cavs won 81.6% of games against the west. I think the disparit of the West and East in 2014 is making people really try to revise history.

[Roundball_Rock]

Good post, Roundball. I saw a post showing LeBron's record against the West in recent years:

14- 20-10
13- 25-5
12- 13-7
11- 20-10
10- 23-7
09- 26-4

127-43 (.747)
Theoretically, if he played an 82 game against season against the West, it would be 61 wings on average. Pretty insane that the 09 and 10 cavs won 81.6% of games against the west. I think the disparit of the West and East in 2014 is making people really try to revise history.

Wow. Thanks for posting that data. So LeBron's teams did about as well against the West as against the East.

2014: 67% against the West, 66% overall.
2013: 83% against the West, 80% overall.
2012: 65% against the West, 70% overall.
2011: 67% against the West, 71% overall.
2010: 77% against the West, 77% overall.
2009: 87% against the West, 80% overall.

They are trying to revise history partly due to the disparity in 2014. I also think it simply is a way to diminish an accomplishment that only the 60's Celtics, 80's Celtics and 80's Lakers achieved.

The major difference between the West and East in the past several seasons has been superior depth in the West. That is not relevant to the playoffs where, outside of having a softer first round opponent (i.e. a team like the 15' Heat as the #8 seed versus the Suns being the #8 seed) the competition is comparable in the ECSF and ECF. LeBron's teams have been the #1 or #2 seed practically every year. Can anyone point to a year where the #8 or #7 seed in the West would have defeated a LeBron team?

The myth that LeBron's teams would be losing in the WCSF if he played in the West ignores his team's actual performance vis-a-vis the West and conveniently puts him in the West with the East team he played on. If you put LeBron on an above average or average Western team, say, Portland, Houston or even Phoenix from 2007-2014 what happens? Phoenix was a 48 win team last year. What would they do with LeBron? (remember, Miami is a 33-38 win team without LeBron--and that is in the East)

[Lebron23]

Round Ball Rock

[coin24]

So brans cavs beat the west teams in 09 and 10?

What happened to LeBald in the playoffs those years? If anything this makes him look even worse. His choke job against the magic and flat out quit against the celtics were fkn embarassing..
Then follows it up with a complete disappearance in 2011


Overall I'd say his career is pretty average without wade and Ray allen.

[Legends66NBA7]

Too many black marks during title runs but dominant leading weak teams to tremendous success.

Definitely top 10 material, but just behind the likes of kobe and duncan at this point.

And yet, about 99% (few exceptions off course) of every NBA player that has ever played would probably have his career.

How terrible.

[Wade's Rings]

Look rookie, I can't stand bron because he's the biggest bitch of all time. He LeQuits, LeLies, LeChokes and when he can't handle the pressure he then goes to a team that becomes LeStacked than STILL LeChokes, LeLies, and LeQuit. Thank you for playing.

I don't like Lebron either.

If you hate Wade we're going to have some issues lol

[Straight_Ballin]

4x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 2x NBA Champion, 3x NBA All Star game MVP, 1x NBA Scoring Champion, and 3x NBA playoffs scoring champion.

2/5 tho with Ray Allen making a career saving miracle shot.

[3ball]

LeBron detractors can't simply invoke the weakness of the East... That does not hold up under historical scrutiny.

apparently, you've never scrutinized it.. look how much tougher jordan's competition was in the 1989 playoffs compared to lebron's in 2007:

Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.

1st Round Jordan: CLE.. (#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense.... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 59.8% TS.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron: WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense... 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 54.9% TS.. 42.5% FG)

2nd Round Jordan: NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 64.6% TS.. 55.0% FG)
2nd Round Lebron: NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 53.7% TS.. 42.3% FG)

Conf. Finals Jordan: DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 59.8% TS.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron: DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 53.7% TS.. 44.9% FG)


^^^^^^ LIKE NIGHT AND DAY

The 90's Bulls routinely cruised to the Finals

not true - jordan faced the 90's Knicks, who snap-made the Finals each time Jordan retired (1994 and 1999) - so they were super-legit... those knicks were better teams and defenses than anything lebron has ever faced to get out of the East...

lebron has only played in the soft, spacing era, where there is more room to do everything and you don't get banged around like he would have in previous eras - i'm not saying he would get crushed - i'm just saying it WOULD be harder for him with no spacing - that's intuitive.

and don't blame the bulls for being that much better than everyone else..

jordan SWEPT shaq and penny's stacked Orlando team in 1996.. whereas lebron goes 7 games with hibbert and paul george?... it goes without saying - shaq and penny are obviously several levels above hibbert and george.

Yup. Lebron is on pace for a top 5 all-time career....

He is on pace to be in the KAJ, MJ, Wilt and Russell tier and not the Bird/Magic/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe/Hakeem tier.

even if he does get another ring, which he is an underdog to do, his team-hopping and seeking out the very best talent every year will cost him in comparison to bird, duncan, and kobe... while his lower level of playoff dominance will cost him compared to shaq and hakeem.

[SouBeachTalents]

04- missed playoffs with rookie of the year asterisk
05- missed playoffs
06- choked against the pistons in semis
07- choked and got swept in the finals
08- choked against celtics in semis
09- choked and Lequit against magic in ECF
10- choked and Lequit gainst celtics in semis and faked an elbow injury
11- choked and Lequit with super stacked team in the finals against jj barea and jason terry plus 4th quarter dismal performances
12- asterisk ring for stern rigging playoffs and finals
13- asterisk ring for stern and popavich letting the spurs lose on purpose game 6.
14- leCramped, lequit and LeBitched about air conditioning wind up having inflated stats so bron's teammates can get the blame and of course wind up being 2/5 getting schooled by young non star leonard all series
15- might be one of his worse seasons yet. LeNoSteroids and LeRegressing.

Knicks

04- Swept in first round
05- Missed playoffs
06- Missed playoffs
07- Missed playoffs
08- Missed playoffs
09- Missed playoffs
10- Missed playoffs
11- Swept in first round
12- Bounced in first round by said scrub
13- Lost in 6 in Eastern Semi's
14- Missed playoffs
15- 5-35, have won once since Thanksgiving

[Prometheus]

Mom jokes? How old are you 12? Don't be mad I did something with my life got a Bachelors in Nursing....what about you? You got a Masters in Flipping burgers?

BTW: You'll die a virgin

If I have to read ONE MORE TIME about you and your gay ass little Bachelor's degree in Nursing I'm gonna rip your head off and light it on fire. Shut the **** up.

[RRR3]

If I have to read ONE MORE TIME about you and your gay ass little Bachelor's degree in Nursing I'm gonna rip your head off and light it on fire. Shut the **** up.

Dude just ignore list him. He's a ****in drone.


"Derp flipping burgers"

"Derp ur mom"

"Derp I'm a nurse"

[Prometheus]

Dude just ignore list him. He's a ****in drone.


"Derp flipping burgers"

"Derp ur mom"

"Derp I'm a nurse"

But I like making fun of people...