ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #4 Jerry West Vs Oscar Robertson.

[catch24]

got the games btw ?

I don't, sorry dude. I'll email you if I do though.

[1987_Lakers]

It is true that Oscar was the better player earlier in their careers while West was better in their later years and in terms of peak play, Oscar might be better, but you can't ignore the fact that Jerry West had SUPERIOR team success. Oscar as the alpha dog on his team only had one 50+ win season and got eliminated in the postseason pretty early year after year, he wasn't well liked by his teammates which I think is very important, and his numbers slightly dropped in the postseason. West was considered a great playoff performer and had a reputation for being clutch, he was a better defender, & had more range. Yes, Oscar Robertson was the better player at their peaks, but West's edge in longevity and his big edge in team success is the reason why I vote for him.

Jerry West

[L.Kizzle]

It is true that Oscar was the better player earlier in their careers while West was better in their later years and in terms of peak play, Oscar might be better, but you can't ignore the fact that Jerry West had SUPERIOR team success. Oscar as the alpha dog on his team only had one 50+ win season and got eliminated in the postseason pretty early year after year, he wasn't well liked by his teammates which I think is very important, and his numbers slightly dropped in the postseason. West was considered a great playoff performer and had a reputation for being clutch, he was a better defender, & had more range. Yes, Oscar Robertson was the better player at their peaks, but West's edge in longevity and his big edge in team success is the reason why I vote for him.

Jerry West

Team success, he had Elgin Baylor (who can be considered better than both) as the best player on his team until maybe 65 or 66. Oscar was the team . Jerry Lucas is a hall of famer but clearly a tier or two below West and Oscar.

He also played in the West, they were the team to beat in the West. The Hawks put up a fight every now and then.

Oscar was in the same division as the Celtics, Nationals and Warriors.

[Boston C's]

I'm going with Jerry West here but by the slightest of margins... cant go wrong with either choice if you ask me

[Droid101]

I'm going with Jerry West here but by the slightest of margins... cant go wrong with either choice if you ask me

Yeah, this is just so damned close. But I'm going with the 4th best Laker of them all, Jerry West.

[1987_Lakers]

Team success, he had Elgin Baylor (who can be considered better than both) as the best player on his team until maybe 65 or 66. Oscar was the team . Jerry Lucas is a hall of famer but clearly a tier or two below West and Oscar.

He also played in the West, they were the team to beat in the West. The Hawks put up a fight every now and then.

Oscar was in the same division as the Celtics, Nationals and Warriors.

I put some of the blame on Oscar for not having good team success, West did have more talent around him, but Oscar had very good teammates as well like Lucas/Twyman/Embry. West elevated his game in the postseason, Oscar didn't. I believe Oscar's bad relationship with his teammates is the reason why the Royals always underachieved/fell short numerous times.

[jlip]

I'm not participating in this project. So my vote doesn't count, but I do find this statement by Bill Russell to be relevant to the discussion.

Also, Oscar has 9 top 5 MVP finishes which actually includes winning in '64. He was the only guard to win MVP before Magic in '87 I think. West has 8 top 5 finishes.

According to this article which discussed a 1970 AP vote for the best players of the decade West finished one place ahead of Oscar.

Interestingly though, in 2000, The National Association of Basketball Coaches voted Big O "Player of the Century."
http://www.orchemcorp.com/Company-Pr...ertson-65.html

http://www.thebigo.com/AboutOscarRob.../biography.php

Despite this info, I don't know whom I would vote for though. Oscar vs. West is more difficult than Magic vs. Bird to me.

[L.Kizzle]

I put some of the blame on Oscar for not having good team success, West did have more talent around him, but Oscar had very good teammates as well like Lucas/Twyman/Embry. West elevated his game in the postseason, Oscar didn't. I believe Oscar's bad relationship with his teammates is the reason why the Royals always underachieved/fell short numerous times.

Yeah, those are very good teammates, but no Elgin Baylor. And you should look deep into Oscar life to find out his relationship's with his teammates and why it was.

And also, you gotta look deeper into the East as to why he didn't have as much success as the Lakers. The East was considered the better division.

[Gotterdammerung]

Solid responses, much better than the previous one. I think it's a photo-finish pick, and you can't go wrong with either one.

Oscar was just as versatile as Magic, and almost as powerful. His transcendental talents encompasses the entire scope & possibilities of the game of basketball.

He did everything at the highest level.

Rebound. Pass. Set picks. Dribble. Box out. Run. Play shutdown D.

Oscar understood every principle & nuance of the game. This is why he demanded the same from his teammates -- all too mortal, too frail, too flawed, too mentally weak. Robertson was too fierce, too ruthless a competitor.

His weaknesses? No 3 point range -- likely because there was no 3 point line in the 60s. Didn't fly and sky like the more athletic dunkers, but much of that could be credited to the anti-dunk prejudices of the time.

Jerry West is probably the better shooter, and the better ball-thief, but I'll go with the most fundamentally sound basketball player in the history of the game.

Oscar.

[Rose]

I'm not voting since I know next to nothing of this era, but...

Holy shit SuperPippen's info, and wall of text.

[ThaRegul8r]

Oscar also won MVP over Russell and Chamberlain in their primes, a very rare feat because from 1960-1968, Russell and Chamberlain won every other MVP award.

Not to take anything away from Oscar's season at all, but there's also a little known story about the 1964 MVP voting that I feel fairly comfortable that no one else outside myself probably knows.

[ThaRegul8r]

Jerry West: [I]Oscar Robertson is the single most talented man I

[Kblaze8855]

Jerry West probably had the best and most fair comparison made between the two. Always nice to hear from the subject.

[Clippersfan86]

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]Jerry West: [I]Oscar Robertson is the single most talented man I

[ShaqAttack3234]

Not to take anything away from Oscar's season at all, but there's also a little known story about the 1964 MVP voting that I feel fairly comfortable that no one else outside myself probably knows.

Yeah, I don't know what you're referring to, but I'd love to hear the story.

[QUOTE]Jerry West: [I]Oscar Robertson is the single most talented man I