How truly good was Dr.J?

[jlip]

Dr. J was in the twilight of his career when I started watching basketball in the mid-80's, but I've read quite a bit of information about him and understand that he completely dominated the ABA. On top of that I was reading where as he was ending his ABA career he was getting consideration as the greatest forward ever. One source said that he readily sacrificed much of his scoring and playing time after joining the Sixers because they wanted a balanced offense that featured at least 3 scorers who could avg. 20ppg as opposed to an offense centered around one dominant 30ppg scorer. He also is arguably the best mid sized shot blocker (6'7 or shorter) in league history.

Having said these things, if he didn't sacrifice so much of his game (i.e. scoring and playing time) once he joined the Sixers, is it possible that he would be spoken of in the same breath as say Kareem, Magic, Bird, and MJ? As a player was he actually that good?

[t-rex]

The problem with Dr J is that America never saw him in the prime of his career.

The 1970s were a bad decade for the NBA. And for the ABA it was even worse. TV ratings were abysmal. And crowds were sparse. I have had old timers tell me that if more people had seen Erving in his prime, his status as an all time great player would be elevated.

When the NBA was reborn in the 1980s, many fans for the first time were introduced to Dr. J. But the man who won a title in 1983 and regularly battled Bird and the Celtics in the early to mid 1980s was not the same Dr. J of 1976 or 1977.


Having said this, I struggle with where to rank Dr. J on the all time list.

I believe at the time he retired, if you add ABA and NBA records, he was actually the 3rd all time leading scorer in pro basketball history. But at the same time, his ball handling skills were not great, he only had an average outside shot, and he wasn't a great passer or a shut down defender.

So how would he fair in the modern game?

Was a he just a slasher, or an elite franchise level scorer? I guess we will never know.

[Showtime]

The problem with Dr J is that America never saw him in the prime of his career.

The 1970s were a bad decade for the NBA. And for the ABA it was even worse. TV ratings were abysmal. And crowds were sparse. I have had old timers tell me that if more people had seen Erving in his prime, his status as an all time great player would be elevated.

When the NBA was reborn in the 1980s, many fans for the first time were introduced to Dr. J. But the man who won a title in 1983 and regularly battled Bird and the Celtics in the early to mid 1980s was not the same Dr. J of 1976 or 1977.


Having said this, I struggle with where to rank Dr. J on the all time list.

I believe at the time he retired, if you add ABA and NBA records, he was actually the 3rd all time leading scorer in pro basketball history. But at the same time, his ball handling skills were not great, he only had an average outside shot, and he wasn't a great passer or a shut down defender.

So how would he fair in the modern game?

Was a he just a slasher, or an elite franchise level scorer? I guess we will never know.

Part of the reason the ABA gets a lower reputation is that they weren't on TV as much (only a few networks then), and if you wanted to watch a ABA game, your best bet was to go to one in person. Guys like George McGinnis, Mel Daniels, Dr J, Artis Gilmore, etc who had their best seasons there often get overlooked. It's funny too, seeing has how many players, including top stars, played in both leagues.

[wheyhigh]

he was great

[ShaqAttack3234]

I don't get the whole "Dr. J was pst his prime when he got to the NBA" stuff. A players prime is usually from around 26-30, and Julius was in the NBA during that time.

His best NBA season was probably in 1980 when he was 29. Watch some '80 Sixers games and you'll see that the athleticism was still there, that famous lay up in the finals vs the Lakers was from the 1980 finals. He was blowing by guys and finishing effortlessly.

In fact, check out his 1980 numbers compared to his first NBA season 1977 when he was 26.

1977- 21.6 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 1.4 bpg, 49.9 FG%
1980- 26.9 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 4.6 apg, 2.2 spg, 1.8 bpg, 51.9 FG%

Aside from being the best open court player of his era and one of the better scorers, Dr. J seemed to be an underrated passer, and he was clearly among the elite players in the league.

He made 7 consecutive all-nba teams and 5 all-nba first teams and 4 consecutive all-nba first teams from '80-'83. He also won the MVP award in 1981.

And prior to finally winning a title in '83, he led his team to 3 finals.

But no, I don't think he had the ability Kareem, Michael, Larry or Magic did.

[Gotterdammerung]

Shaqattack, the reason many say that Doctor J's prime was spent in the ABA is because they claim his knees were shot by the time he got to the NBA in 1976. He did play 11 great years in the NBA, but observers routinely say that his knees were worn down after 5 years in the ABA. They say that he did the following in the ABA that he no longer could in the NBA: cut sharply without the ball, play energetic denial defense in the post and on the wings, jump five times after the same rebound, and dunk from a flatfooted jump versus giants like Artis Gilmore.

Not having seen him play in the ABA prevents me from making any conclusions from empirically based observations, but it's reasonable to assume that his athletic prime was shorter than most and that he maintained his level of play with tremendous skill in the NBA.

On top of being the greatest finisher in league history, everybody (coaches, fans, other players) held their breath when the Doctor launched towards the basket at full speed. If you watched him play live, you were never disappointed because at least once every game, the Doctor pulled off a move nobody ever did before. An acrobatic layup in a thicket of arms drew gasps. A soaring smash over a center at the peak of his jump. An icream scoop layup from 10 feet away.

On top of this incredible ability, Julius Erving was also a winner. He was a sky-high rebounder (particularly on the offensive glass) a creative shot maker and passer, & most importantly, a supportive and inspirational teammate.

His weaknesses: long range - 3 point accuracy in ABA was 32.2%, (you could say that was due to the lightweight ABA ball) & in NBA, 26.1%. He wasn't great at positional defense, and chose to ambush the passing lanes instead. Couldn't really shoot with the left hand.

[nycelt84]

I don't get the whole "Dr. J was pst his prime when he got to the NBA" stuff. A players prime is usually from around 26-30, and Julius was in the NBA during that time.

His best NBA season was probably in 1980 when he was 29. Watch some '80 Sixers games and you'll see that the athleticism was still there, that famous lay up in the finals vs the Lakers was from the 1980 finals. He was blowing by guys and finishing effortlessly.

In fact, check out his 1980 numbers compared to his first NBA season 1977 when he was 26.

1977- 21.6 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 1.4 bpg, 49.9 FG%
1980- 26.9 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 4.6 apg, 2.2 spg, 1.8 bpg, 51.9 FG%

Aside from being the best open court player of his era and one of the better scorers, Dr. J seemed to be an underrated passer, and he was clearly among the elite players in the league.

He made 7 consecutive all-nba teams and 5 all-nba first teams and 4 consecutive all-nba first teams from '80-'83. He also won the MVP award in 1981.

And prior to finally winning a title in '83, he led his team to 3 finals.

But no, I don't think he had the ability Kareem, Michael, Larry or Magic did.

Not to nitpick but Dr. J was born in 2/50 which means he was 30 years old during the 1980 playoffs. Some players also for some reason or the other peak around 23-25.

[Gotterdammerung]

I rank him 4th GOAT small forward after Bird, Hondo, Pippen, and before Barry and Baylor. LeBron James might make it his list when he's done, though, but too early to tell.

[alexandreben]

"Julius was the greatest open court player who ever played. "
------ Billy Cunningham in 2005

Due to the monopoly of TV broadcast by NBA, those big super stars were "ignored" during their peak, actually ABA had much better promotion than NBA, e.g. three-point line, one-on-one game, slam dunk contest, etc. ironically the one who came up with better idea got driven out of the game..

God knows how great Dr.J's athlete ability was when he played in ABA, but the memory of the dunking contest in 1984 really brought up the doubt when he dunk from the foul line at the age of 34, he is the NO.1 small forward of Philly IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6E6gSPbkt8#t=2m20s

[LAClipsFan33]

I've had the privilege to actually see 3 ABA playoff games where Dr. J played. You really haven't seen his full game unless you saw the ABA Julius...although the 1976-1977 version of J was still crazy athletic...people would be truly amazed by the one handed moves he put together around the basket. It's like nothing you've ever seen. Dr. J was one of the most unique players ever IMO because of what he would do in the air palming the ball.

He put on more of a show in the ABA. Truly awesome...

[T-bomb 25]

Dr.J was pretty special.....my small foward rankings....

1.Bird
2.Dr.J
3.Baylor
4.B.King
5.Nique/Pippen I had to revise this....if it wasnt for B.Kings injuries he would have unquestionbly be the number #2 SF as it sits i have to bring Dr.J to number #2 he was as special as a player gets....

[ShaqAttack3234]

From what I've read and from the limited footage I've seen, the ABA was a more free, open court game, so naturally I'd expect more highlights.

But I'm skeptical about how much his knees affected him, I mean what could've possibly happened between the '76 season, his last in the ABA and widely regarded as his best and then the '77 season? Not to mention that he retained his athleticism as well as any player I can think of into his 30's.

[LAClipsFan33]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkHg1YF3kwo

[alenleomessi]

Underrated imo, he was considered one of the GOATs when he played, now he isnt in top 15 in some lists

[T-bomb 25]

From what I've read and from the limited footage I've seen, the ABA was a more free, open court game, so naturally I'd expect more highlights.

But I'm skeptical about how much his knees affected him, I mean what could've possibly happened between the '76 season, his last in the ABA and widely regarded as his best and then the '77 season? Not to mention that he retained his athleticism as well as any player I can think of into his 30's.

Yes he was a amazing player....its tough to rank him part of me thinks he should be a a top 10 GOAT.....and then the other part says top 20....and yet when i look at my SF rankings i only have him at 4th....but i would'nt argue with anyone if he was 2nd...