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Old 07-25-2009, 08:48 PM   #31
phoenix18
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

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Originally Posted by magnax1
He was easily better than Kobe in his prime, but did not have the same sort of motivation.
Why do you say that? Its funny how you can throw around these accusations and say that Tmac didnt have Kobe's heart even though Kobe has quit on his team. The fact is this, Kobe was lucky to have a great coach and great teammates and stay healthy.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:53 PM   #32
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

at T-Mac being 'easily' better then Bryant. It was actually very close either way.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:55 PM   #33
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

Best in the league that year, no question. The fact that he got that team into the playoffs was a miracle itself, look at the roster he had! They were horrible, non of which were in the nba after that year for the most part. Throw in doc rivers, the most overrated coach of all time and there you have it. He was unstoppable. His teammates coudnt make a local y league team and he took them to the playoffs. He took way too much heat for 'giving up' on his team but look what happened to his body after those years of sacrificing himself. It fell apart at a very young age even NBA standards. He had heart, but no backing by managements lack of willing to spend to get teammates and the grant hill fiasco. Its really sad, just as much as penny's falling off... well close to that anyway.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

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Originally Posted by magnax1
He was easily better than Kobe in his prime, but did not have the same sort of motivation.
No, he wasn't and this is coming from a Kobe hater. Stastically speaking you can argue peak McGrady was better but when you go beyond the stats, he wasn't.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:57 PM   #35
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

TMac was god damn ridiculously good. Yes, he was better than Kobe. He was better than Kobe ever has been. This fiction that there is something inherently "winner" in Kobe and inherentlly "loser" in Tmac needs to stop. Most heroes are made and Kobe is most definitely made. His work ethic is stronger than Tmac's there's no doubt about that. But Kobe's work ethic is merely a product of the same selfishness and impatience that makes him less effective, and less conducive to winning, than he otherwise could be.

But having great teams and great coaches around him from day one has *made* him a winner, both in terms of results and reputation. Tmac would have won just as much as Kobe did in his shoes.

Tim Duncan is a flat, emotionless, offensively passive player. Yet he is considered a winner of the first order, and why? Two reasons. One is that he is a very consistent offensive player who makes his teammates better - just like Tmac does. Two is that he is a part of the greatest organization in recent sports history. From day one of his career he has been in the best possible situation. Perfect roleplayers. Rookie year was the final piece of the puzzle for an already good team. Top 3 coach in NBA history... all these things made him what he is today. And he is that - if you took away all these things and stuck him on LA Clippers he'd still be a "winner" (though not to the same extent) but if he had been on LA Clippers from day one who on earth knows how he would have turned out?

Tmac consistently showed up in the playoffs, and in a big way. He never had the team, the organization, he coach. There's really no reason to believe that given Gregg Popovich and all that other stuff, he couldn't have won a few championships? I'm not suggesting he's Duncan's equal, or even could be, because Duncan's defensive impact is huge. But Tmac gets underappreciated. All these guys are considered losers, and then they get some decent teammates, win a ring or come close, and all of a sudden they're great leaders with tremendous intangibles (Pierce, Garnett). Fans are fickle.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:00 PM   #36
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton
TMac was god damn ridiculously good. Yes, he was better than Kobe. He was better than Kobe ever has been. This fiction that there is something inherently "winner" in Kobe and inherentlly "loser" in Tmac needs to stop. Most heroes are made and Kobe is most definitely made. His work ethic is stronger than Tmac's there's no doubt about that. But Kobe's work ethic is merely a product of the same selfishness and impatience that makes him less effective, and less conducive to winning, than he otherwise could be.

But having great teams and great coaches around him from day one has *made* him a winner, both in terms of results and reputation. Tmac would have won just as much as Kobe did in his shoes.

Tim Duncan is a flat, emotionless, offensively passive player. Yet he is considered a winner of the first order, and why? Two reasons. One is that he is a very consistent offensive player who makes his teammates better - just like Tmac does. Two is that he is a part of the greatest organization in recent sports history. From day one of his career he has been in the best possible situation. Perfect roleplayers. Rookie year was the final piece of the puzzle for an already good team. Top 3 coach in NBA history... all these things made him what he is today. And he is that - if you took away all these things and stuck him on LA Clippers he'd still be a "winner" (though not to the same extent) but if he had been on LA Clippers from day one who on earth knows how he would have turned out?

Tmac consistently showed up in the playoffs, and in a big way. He never had the team, the organization, he coach. There's really no reason to believe that given Gregg Popovich and all that other stuff, he couldn't have won a few championships? I'm not suggesting he's Duncan's equal, or even could be, because Duncan's defensive impact is huge. But Tmac gets underappreciated. All these guys are considered losers, and then they get some decent teammates, win a ring or come close, and all of a sudden they're great leaders with tremendous intangibles (Pierce, Garnett). Fans are fickle.

Wow powerful post...
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:01 PM   #37
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

how many players that are better than Kobe that led the league in scoring but still have his team the worst in the NBA?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2004.html
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:03 PM   #38
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

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Originally Posted by AirJordan23
No, he wasn't and this is coming from a Kobe hater. Stastically speaking you can argue peak McGrady was better but when you go beyond the stats, he wasn't.
That's basically what I'm Trying to say, He was better in the plain old I can score and rebound and pass type basketball but didn't have the same sort of motivation of a I want to win no matter what type attitude (He had it at times but never showed it consistantly)
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:04 PM   #39
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

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Originally Posted by Bigsmoke
how many players that are better than Kobe that led the league in scoring but still have his team the worst in the NBA?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2004.html

his team? didn't know he controlled management.. look at those scrubs he played with.. Andrew DeClerq was their C!!
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:05 PM   #40
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

imagine him and howard playing together. thanks orlando management
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:06 PM   #41
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

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Originally Posted by goldenryan
imagine him and howard playing together. thanks orlando management

I know.. He wanted so bad to play with a dominant big man that he let him get away... at first I resented Tracy for doing it but can you blame him? They had a hockey guy as the GM maybe the worst in the history of the NBA in Weisbrod...
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:07 PM   #42
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

Quote:
how many players that are better than Kobe that led the league in scoring but still have his team the worst in the NBA?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2004.html
In order, the best players other than Tmac on that team were named, Juwan Howard, Drew Gooden (both play the same position), Deshawn Stevenson (plays the same position as Tmac) (26 games only), TYRONN LUE, GORDAN GIRICEK, shall I continue?

The only players in the league today who could take that team to 30 or so wins are prime Shaq, prime Duncan, and Lebron. And that's assuming they'd be the same players with such trash around them. Nobody's comparing Tmac with those guys... those guys are looking at top-10 all time. Tmac if he had been healthy would be looking at top 20 or 30.

Quote:
Andrew DeClerq was their C!!
yeah I remember that guy! man... memories. Watch Tmac break double digits with that team was impressive

Last edited by Clifton : 07-25-2009 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:07 PM   #43
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenryan
imagine him and howard playing together. thanks orlando management

McGrady was playing with Yao... didnt get that many accomplishments

Last edited by Bigsmoke : 07-25-2009 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:07 PM   #44
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

"Kobe was lucky to have a great coach and great teammates and stay healthy"By Phoenix :roll So that applies to all the greats too? they were just lucky they had good teammates and good health? Tracy just didn't had the tools to be one of the greats and thats the truth, sure he was amazing in 02/03 but he i bet you that he didn't have the desire to be one of the greats like kobe did.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:09 PM   #45
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Default Re: So Just How Good Was Tracy McGrady in (02-03)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsmoke
McGrady was playing with Yao... didnt get that any accomplishments

Yao Ming is the biggest show nothing on the big stage super star maybe in NBA history.. the guy just crumbles under pressure..
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